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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old April 3 2013, 04:19 PM   #16
James T. Vader
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

Dear Movies, we have detected your pattern. Please stop it.


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Old April 3 2013, 04:40 PM   #17
Borgminister
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

Compelling villains aren't your cup of tea then?
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Old April 3 2013, 04:54 PM   #18
James T. Vader
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

Borgminister wrote: View Post
Compelling villains aren't your cup of tea then?
The letting themselves get caught to acheive their Master Plan has been played to death.
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Old April 3 2013, 05:01 PM   #19
I Am Groot
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

I'm not putting this in spoiler code since it's just speculation and the thread title says "Spoiler" twice anyway. Just don't read on if for some odd reason you're in this thread despite trying to avoid spoilers.












Franklin wrote: View Post
It's from Shockya.com reported by Trekmovie.com at the link, below. Passes the sniff test or not? Discuss.

http://trekmovie.com/2013/04/02/new-...ported-online/
My suspicion that Cumberbatch might be Khan has hinged not only on the several allusions to TWoK in this film, but also to a couple of the original names for Khan in the early drafts of Space Seed:

In writer Carey Wilber's original treatment, the Khan character is a Nordic superman named Harold Erricsen. This evolved in the first draft, where the character first introduces himself as John Ericssen, but is later revealed to be Ragnar Thorwald, who was involved in "the First World Tyranny". (Star Trek Magazine issue 120, The Star Trek Compendium, pp. 57-58)

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Spac..._%28episode%29
John + Harold Erricsen becomes John Harrison. Also, he initially gives a false identity to conceal his infamous name, just as it's been speculated Harrison might be doing here.

Given Orci and Kurtzman's (especially Orci's) knowledge and referencing of Trek lore, and the fact that they would undoubtedly have researched Space Seed extensively while working on the script, that seems like something they might do to give the villain a name that's a hint but at the same time deniable and not completely obvious.

Also, we have the issue of Harrison's seemingly superhuman jumping and massive weapon wielding ability on the Klingon planet, his assertion that he has the ability to cure fatal diseases beyond the abilities of Federation medicine, and while a quest for vengeance is hardly unique to Khan, it's kind of the thing he's known for.

If I had to take a stab at a potential plot, I'd guess that due to Starfleet's enhanced technology and different priorities in the wake of the attack on the USS Kelvin 25 years in the past, the then Captain Marcus or someone else discovered the SS Botany Bay much earlier than it was found in the Prime Timeline, and after an attempt at seizing his ship, Khan and his followers were banished to Ceti Alpha V like before.

In this timeline, years later, Ceti Alpha VI was used by Carol Marcus as a test site for her proto-Genesis torpedo, and like in STIII, it failed and wound up destroying the planet. "The shock shifted the orbit of Ceti Alpha V and everything was laid wasted." This may be the desolate planet with the huge rock formations that Harrison is shown staring at in the trailer. Harrison is able to save many of his fellow Augments by having them go back into their cryogenics stasis pods again where they don't need food or water the planet can no longer provide while he goes off on his mission.

Now Admiral Marcus and the top brass consider it a blessing in disguise that Khan and his dangerous band of Augments probably have been killed off and neglect to send a rescue mission after them. This is what prompts Harrison to say that Starfleet's leaders have committed a terrible crime and to seek vengeance by going undercover and infiltrating Starfleet to destroy their facilities, attack their leadership, gain access to a ship(s), and possibly grab the new and improved Genesis Device, which like many horrible things is being developed with the best of intentions in order to terraform (vulcaform?) a new homeworld for the Vulcan refugees similar to Vulcan itself.

Khanberbatch will get a hold of a ship, start kicking ass until the Enterprise shows up, we'll have a bigger explosion-fest rehash of the Reliant vs. Enterprise fight, and both ships will be sent careening toward Earth, with Enterprise pulling out of it at the last moment when Kirk sacrifices himself (though probably non-fatally, just severely burned but healable) to restart the engines in a reverse of Spock's sacrifice in TWoK.

I'm sure that's totally wrong, but that's what I'm going for storywise for now.
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Old April 3 2013, 05:11 PM   #20
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

Guessing, I'd put it at about 30 to 40 percent right. I don't think there's been a banishment to Ceti Alpha.
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Old April 3 2013, 05:12 PM   #21
Oso Blanco
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

Maybe in this timeline it's Kirk who ends up in the beep-beep-blink-blink chair instead of Pike!
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Old April 3 2013, 05:24 PM   #22
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
[stuff]

I'm sure that's totally wrong, but that's what I'm going for storywise for now.
That stuff sounds pretty good, dude. That possible read on Harrison's name is a good catch.
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Old April 3 2013, 05:53 PM   #23
Borgminister
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

James T. Vader wrote: View Post
Borgminister wrote: View Post
Compelling villains aren't your cup of tea then?
The letting themselves get caught to acheive their Master Plan has been played to death.
Ah, I see.
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Old April 3 2013, 06:07 PM   #24
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

Well, what little we've been shown of that aspect of the movie certainly is very reminiscent of Skyfall - and to a lesser degree, Whedon's Avengers.
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Old April 3 2013, 06:08 PM   #25
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
Genesis Device, which like many horrible things is being developed with the best of intentions in order to terraform (vulcaform?) a new homeworld for the Vulcan refugees similar to Vulcan itself.
I like a lot of your speculation, but this part, if true, is pretty annoying. It's not like the Genesis device is going to reconstruct Vulcan's culture, just the physical aspects of the planet. And it would seem an illogical use of resources to do that when there are plenty of type M planets (even in the AbramsVerse.) Creating a duplicate of Vulcan for 10,000 Vulcans is about like spending planet-sized resources to make Superman his fortress of solitude echo his long-dead home, and for far less gain, if any.

Not saying it isn't true, but if so, it shows something about the writers and the reset button mentality, which seems to be a reset that is not mindful of context.
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Old April 3 2013, 06:18 PM   #26
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

How many characters from Trek have died and been born again? I've lost count.
Having said that, I find it unlikely they'd drop Pine from the lineup. He and ZQ are carrying this franchise and doing it fairly well so far.

But still... no one stays dead in the Trekuniverse, JJ or Prime. Trek Zombies are everywhere: Tasha Yar, Spock, Jennifer Sisko, Trip, etc. they're all just a quantum flux inverter away from reappearing to stir frantic emotions in the rest of the living cast. And according to TNG's Parallels there is an infinite number of universes from which to plunder replacement heroes.
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Old April 3 2013, 06:23 PM   #27
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

Kirk doesn't die in this movie.
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Old April 3 2013, 06:53 PM   #28
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

Although I'm sure Cumberbatch is Khan, there is nothing about this spoiler that couldn't be gleaned from the various teaser trailers and photos, including the Vulcan salute through the plexiglass.
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Old April 3 2013, 07:54 PM   #29
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
I'm sure that's totally wrong, but that's what I'm going for storywise for now.
No offense, but this sounds incredibly fan-wanky. While I agree that it's possible Marcus (and maybe April, if he actually has anything to do with this film) found the Botany Bay, I sincerely doubt Ceti Alpha will appear in this movie... unless you accept the idea that Marcus et al. banished Khan and his followers there, and Carol Marcus just happened to choose that planet to test a weapon, etc..., at which point movie goers will say "If they wanted to do STII, why not just show us the original??"

I will say this: "kudos" to Bad Robot for playing a huge mind game with us. The Khan idea has been raised and shot down so many times that one can read this "BIG SPOILER" and have no idea if it's true or not. Whether it's really Khan, or NOT Khan, we're still guaranteed to be surprised. No one's going to take them to court for lying. Well played, JJ.
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Old April 3 2013, 08:18 PM   #30
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Re: New Possible Spoiler for Harrison and One Other Possible Big Spoil

I think Locutus of Bored may be fairly close alright, though I agree the specific inclusion of Ceti Alpha Whichever isn't too likely.
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