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Old April 2 2013, 11:16 PM   #2011
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

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Old April 2 2013, 11:25 PM   #2012
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

Dream wrote: View Post
So from a technical perspective, how does Hershel foot work? Do they need to shoot each scene he is in twice?
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Old April 2 2013, 11:38 PM   #2013
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

Twice? No. they just digitally edit out the green sock. I am guessing (haven't really paid attention) that any scene involving Herschel from the waist down that they avoid camera movement to make it easier on the effects crew.
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Old April 2 2013, 11:38 PM   #2014
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

That's a fun picture.

Blue_Trek wrote: View Post
I went back and re-watched the scene, Hershal had his gun on him too, I don't think that kid was going to take down two people with their guns aimed at him, his rifle was in one hand not even in a position too shoot. I have to say after carefully re-watching the scene, Carl "jumped the gun" on this one. Perhaps he has seen too many people given a chance, quickly turn to foe's. He has become jaded, even his reaction to the refugee's, his empathy levels are the lowest of the group now. He is just a kid, but has become a product of his environment, and it's a nasty one.
Yep, Hershel was right.
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Old April 3 2013, 01:37 AM   #2015
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

Kestrel wrote: View Post
Yep, Hershel was right.
Not even remotely.

It wasn't hard to tell what the kid's plan was. Overpower Carl and use him as a shield and bargaining chip. Classic TV tactic, especially when your opposition is a preteen kid and an old cripple. Doubly so when the old cripple is a delusional hippie who thinks the world is full of flowers and kitty cats. In fact, after watching it against just to make sure, there was absolutely no sign he had any intention of surrendering aside from his words. His body language said it all. He was trying to get Carl to grab his gun and then take advantage of the situation.
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Old April 3 2013, 01:40 AM   #2016
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

wissaboo wrote: View Post
totally agree, I'd even go so far as to say that Herschel totally misread what was going on with the kid Carl shot. He was seeing a teenage kid in the old world. Not a potential enemy in the real world.

But that's the point: Herschel saw the truth: the teenager was not some warrior, and he sure as hell was not Martinez or the Bowman. He was a kid on the run from an overwhelming situation he would never be prepared for--forced to be a soldier. He was running for his life, and Carl murdered him thanks to the attitude he reinforced to Rick later in the episode.

He believes killing to avoid being killed is the one and only mindset for the zombie world, despite examples of that behavior--played out in front of his face over the course of a year--failed. The Governor is a great example: he sent Merle to kill Michonne, but ended up kidnapping Maggie and Glen--setting the Woodbury raid (and multiple deaths) in motion.

If the Governor left Michonne alone, then no Merle to kidnap the couple, no raid, no deaths.

Shane murdered Randall in order to lure Rick into a death trap--for some moronic idea that only he was good for Lori and Carl, and how did that morally bankrupt, ends justifies the means ideology serve him?

The world changed, but if humanity is lost, then what is the point of continuing?

Embracing a nihilistic worldview is unnatural for a functioning, peaceful society, and Rick's group do seek to survive in peace, even while protecting themselves from threats.
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Old April 3 2013, 01:49 AM   #2017
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
But that's the point: Herschel saw the truth: the teenager was not some warrior, and he sure as hell was not Martinez or the Bowman.
No, he saw what he wanted to see; a defenseless, innocent young kid surrendering. But that's not what that combatant was doing, despite running away. It was painfully clear -- painfully clear -- that he was going to pull something. And even if he wasn't and was just being stupid, well, that's what happens to Stupid(tm) when in a warzone.

All he had to do was drop his weapon like he was ordered and he likely would have lived. Sure, Carl might have still shot him since he didn't have any means of securing a prisoner, but at least then Hershel would have something to back up his sob story.
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Old April 3 2013, 04:05 AM   #2018
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

As the audience we know that he wasn't a seasoned combatant. He was an asthmatic kid that had only recently been handed a gun. This gives us the incite to realize that Herschel's reading of the situation was the correct one. He was a scared kid with a gun in his face who had no plans to "take advantage of the situation". If anything he was scared into inaction by the gun pointed at him.
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Old April 3 2013, 04:13 AM   #2019
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

<shrugs> Think what you will. Carl certainly wasn't the only person who read the situation that way.
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Old April 3 2013, 04:49 AM   #2020
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

I loved this episode. I loved the beginning the most. You kill or you die or you die and you kill. That whole intro was riveting. I had to rewind a couple of times to properly process my thoughts on it. David Morrisey is a great actor with great presence.

I can't wait till season four and what it will bring. I hope we see Morgan again too!
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Old April 3 2013, 05:01 AM   #2021
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

sojourner wrote: View Post
As the audience we know that he wasn't a seasoned combatant. He was an asthmatic kid that had only recently been handed a gun. This gives us the incite to realize that Herschel's reading of the situation was the correct one. He was a scared kid with a gun in his face who had no plans to "take advantage of the situation". If anything he was scared into inaction by the gun pointed at him.
The asthmatic kid and the person Carl shot were two different people. For some reason several people on different forums are confusing the two.

http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Noah_%28TV_Series%29

http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Jody
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Old April 3 2013, 05:13 AM   #2022
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

Was there ambiguity about what Carl did to that teenager? Sure. Can you reason it out both ways? Absolutely. People are missing the point though. It's not Carl shooting the teenager that is the problem. It's what's going on in his head that's the problem. What he said to his dad should be a red flag.

He is thinking in absolutes. He claimed that Rick should have taken the chance to kill the Governor when they met the 1st time. That could have likely ended up with Daryl, Hershel & Rick himself getting killed.

Despite whether you think Carl was justified in this one situation, his motives are questionable. He will be an executioner far more than he will be a group helper. Hell, they were at such close range, with the advantage, he could have just put a bullet in the kid's hand or arm to make him drop the weapon, but he jumped straight to execution, & whether they were at risk from the teen is not the point.

Why Carl has become so absolute about putting people down is the point, & he doesn't seem to wrestle at all with the morality of that, the way Daryl or Rick do. Righteous men wrestle with that

There will always be risks. Life is risk. Assuming execution is the perfect solution to a risky situation in a dangerous world is reckless & potentially morally corrupting. I wouldn't go so far as to say we're there yet, but it's looming on the horizon, because more than anything... Right now, Carl's out to prove he is hard

And well... that's an extremely shitty motivation, & if it continues, it will cause him more pain than relief, I assure you.

Rick has cause to be concerned, whether this one execution tells the tale or not
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Old April 3 2013, 07:37 AM   #2023
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

Dream wrote: View Post
sojourner wrote: View Post
As the audience we know that he wasn't a seasoned combatant. He was an asthmatic kid that had only recently been handed a gun. This gives us the incite to realize that Herschel's reading of the situation was the correct one. He was a scared kid with a gun in his face who had no plans to "take advantage of the situation". If anything he was scared into inaction by the gun pointed at him.
The asthmatic kid and the person Carl shot were two different people. For some reason several people on different forums are confusing the two.

http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Noah_%28TV_Series%29

http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Jody
Ah, well, then I concede the point about the audience knowing the character better.
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Old April 3 2013, 09:10 AM   #2024
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

Andrea makes it on the list of Most Annoying TV Characters Ever

A character with an incoherent personality who seemed to reinvent her motivations on a weekly basis, Andrea (Laurie Holden) really began to get on our nerves in season 3. While the rest of the show rebooted in a more action-heavy direction, Andrea became the last vestige of Dead's moralizing-soliloquy dark side, making speeches and self-justifying and generally bringing the action to a halt. It didn't help matters that, in the not-so-grand tradition of Marissa Cooper, she also had a tendency to fall for the way wrong guy. (Seriously, she hooked up with with the bad guy in two consecutive seasons.) In the Dead comic book, Andrea was one of the fan-favorite characters; by the time TV-Andrea bit the bullet in the show, fans were just grateful to see her go. —Darren Franich.
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Old April 3 2013, 09:35 AM   #2025
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

Apparently the writers were successful with the Carl shooting scene, given the discussion here. The bottom line is that the "kid with a gun" looks a lot different from the perspectives of a ten-year-old versus a 60-year-old.
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