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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old April 2 2013, 01:51 PM   #16
Timo
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Re: Deanna driving the ship...

And as we don't see the planet anywhere in this shot. She had to have been pretty much flying right towards it.
The lighting angles tell an odd and exciting story here. Apparently, the Soran/Picard action takes place smack in the middle of the daylight side of the planet, while the Klingons first fire on the E-D in a darker setting where the local star is somewhere behind the shoulders of the Klingons. This is where the final shot is fired, too, despite all the maneuvering; Troi perhaps keeps the fight near the dusk or dawn shadow of the planet to prevent Veridian IV inhabitants from seeing what is going on, amd then parks on the sunny side.

At the explosion scene, the sun is shining from the direction of the upper bow of the vessel - so one would think both left and right would be away from the planet, which would be falling somewhere behind the stardrive section, slightly to starboard. It's not necessarily the shockwave that sends the saucer into the atmosphere, but the subsequent fact that helm control goes offline - perhaps the rudder jammed to "over to starboard"?

Indeed, the shockwave might have been relatively insignificant in the end, as we don't see it physically harming the saucer, or alerting the two men down on the planet, or creating weather patterns, or anything like that.

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Old April 2 2013, 04:09 PM   #17
C.E. Evans
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Re: Deanna driving the ship...

The shockwave from the stardrive explosion was pretty significant, though. It was strong enough at that range to knock the saucer nose-down as well as take out its ability to steer at impulse speed. In mere seconds, Veridian III was in its flight path with no means of being able to veer away (bummer!). At that point, the only thing that could be done was Data diverting power to the maneuvering thrusters so that it landed level rather than bow-first.
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Old April 2 2013, 04:23 PM   #18
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Re: Deanna driving the ship...

The writers thought it would be more realistic if a woman crashed the ship.
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Old April 2 2013, 05:22 PM   #19
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Re: Deanna driving the ship...

She just wasn't comfortable with right hand drive.
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Old April 2 2013, 06:58 PM   #20
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Re: Deanna driving the ship...

Wait a sec guys, this is space. There's no air to carry a shockwave so all that's hitting the saucer is the gas and debris from the explosion itself. Is that going to carry enough momentum to push the saucer so hard its own engines can't compensate?

R. Star wrote: View Post
I'm not questioning what happened. I'm questioning the sanity of the material that let it happened. Even in their own everyone is perfect universe that sort of had bad results.
Honestly I'm okay with Troi at that stage being qualified to take the helm. I was more bothered by her being in charge in Disaster, before doing her Bridge Officer course.
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Old April 2 2013, 08:04 PM   #21
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Re: Deanna driving the ship...

If I were her and had been stationed on the bridge for the last seven years, at some point I would have made myself learn how to pilot the ship. Maybe Wesley taught her!
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Old April 2 2013, 08:10 PM   #22
JRS
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Re: Deanna driving the ship...

Lets now fix this forever, shall we?
Troi did not crash the ship, the reason why it happened is in the dialogue:

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]
DATA: One minute to warp core breach.
RIKER: Begin separation sequence. Full impulse power once we're clear. Warp core is going critical.
DATA: Separation complete.
TROI: Engaging impulse engines.
DATA (OC): Core breach in progress.
COMPUTER VOICE: Primary stabilisers off-line. Engaging secondary systems.
RIKER: Report!
TROI: Helm controls are off-line!
DATA: Oh, shit...
(on the viewscreen Data has realised the saucer section is hurtling towards the planet)[/SIZE][/FONT]
As you can see, the helm did not work,
thus nobody was able to fly the ship after the explosion..not even if Data would have been at the helm
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Old April 2 2013, 08:59 PM   #23
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Re: Deanna driving the ship...

^^^
The fact that the helm was knocked offline has been mentioned a couple of times already in this thread, but it doesn't really matter since it was still a woman at the wheel.
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Old April 2 2013, 10:15 PM   #24
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Re: Deanna driving the ship...

Look at the pictures I posted again. She still had to deliberately maneuver the saucer between the drive and the planet -before- she lost helm controls. Space is three dimensional. She could have turned the other direction. Heck she probably would've been better off just going straight. She didn't lose helm controls until that shockwave was already pushing them towards the planet. So no, I can't give her a pass on that one.
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Old April 2 2013, 10:47 PM   #25
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Re: Deanna driving the ship...

In the actual movie, though, the saucer is moving cleanly away until the shockwave hits it and sends it flying towards Veridian III (the saucer is actually seen being knocked nose down). With the helm dead, there's nothing anyone sitting at the helm could have done to prevent the ship from crashing.
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Old April 2 2013, 11:01 PM   #26
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Re: Deanna driving the ship...

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
In the actual movie, though, the saucer is moving cleanly away until the shockwave hits it and sends it flying towards Veridian III (the saucer is actually seen being knocked nose down). With the helm dead, there's nothing anyone sitting at the helm could have done to prevent the ship from crashing.
After the shockwave hit? No. It's no secret that exploding things create shockwaves. We'd already seen that once in this movie alone up to this point. It wasn't a directional or curved shockwave or anything weird like that, but a symmetrical expanding sphere.

The only way that expanding sphere shock wave would push them into the planet is if the saucer was between the planet and the drive. The helm didn't die until -after- it hit. So while they were separating Troi could have very easily navigated so the drive section, which everyone knew was going to explode, was between the planet and the saucer. Even as they separated Troi was turning, indicating she had full helm control at the time. A turn in the opposite direction would've kept the saucer a going concern.
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Old April 2 2013, 11:06 PM   #27
C.E. Evans
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Re: Deanna driving the ship...

R. Star wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
In the actual movie, though, the saucer is moving cleanly away until the shockwave hits it and sends it flying towards Veridian III (the saucer is actually seen being knocked nose down). With the helm dead, there's nothing anyone sitting at the helm could have done to prevent the ship from crashing.
After the shockwave hit? No.
Yes. That's exactly what happened. The shockwave sent the saucer flying towards Veridian III and knocked the helm offline, so there was nothing Troi or anyone else could have done.
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Old April 2 2013, 11:13 PM   #28
R. Star
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Re: Deanna driving the ship...

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
In the actual movie, though, the saucer is moving cleanly away until the shockwave hits it and sends it flying towards Veridian III (the saucer is actually seen being knocked nose down). With the helm dead, there's nothing anyone sitting at the helm could have done to prevent the ship from crashing.
After the shockwave hit? No.
Yes. That's exactly what happened. The shockwave sent the saucer flying towards Veridian III and knocked the helm offline, so there was nothing Troi or anyone else could have done.
Troi had quite a few seconds between the separation and the explosion. Helm control was fully operational then as witnessed by the scene where the saucer is turning away from the drive section. The only way that explosion could knock them into Veridian III is if she deliberately positioned them between the drive and the planet. Space is three dimensional, she could have gone any number of other ways and the shock wave would've only pushed them further away from the planet.
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Old April 2 2013, 11:36 PM   #29
C.E. Evans
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Re: Deanna driving the ship...

R. Star wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post

After the shockwave hit? No.
Yes. That's exactly what happened. The shockwave sent the saucer flying towards Veridian III and knocked the helm offline, so there was nothing Troi or anyone else could have done.
Troi had quite a few seconds between the separation and the explosion. Helm control was fully operational then as witnessed by the scene where the saucer is turning away from the drive section. The only way that explosion could knock them into Veridian III is if she deliberately positioned them between the drive and the planet. Space is three dimensional, she could have gone any number of other ways and the shock wave would've only pushed them further away from the planet.
Nah, that's just trying real hard to blame Troi for something that couldn't have been stopped by anyone.
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Old April 2 2013, 11:37 PM   #30
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Re: Deanna driving the ship...

Really the blame to me falls on Riker who decided it was a great idea to have the therapist fly the ship.
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