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Old April 2 2013, 07:52 AM   #31
Danger Ace
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Re: Animated Series

This morning I watched the first episode of TAS ("Beyond the Farthest Star"). It wasn't all that bad, however, the hokiness factor was kinda high, therefore, I personally could not consider much, if anything, as "canon."

The animation was clean but very limited. And while the animated form allowed for an unrestrained imagination, it also untethered it from being relatable, realistic, grounded science-fiction.

It did serve to reinforce my opinion that ultimately it is more curio than relevant must-see "Star Trek."
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Old April 2 2013, 03:29 PM   #32
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Re: Animated Series

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Partly because his lawyers were fighting a lawsuit with DC Fontana and David Gerrold at the time: they were suing for co-creatorship on TNG. (And they eventually received a settlement, with a non disclosure clause.)
Which is a shame, since they (and perhaps Bob Justman too) definitely deserved co-creator credit. If you read Gerrold's 1973 The World of Star Trek, wherein he talks about TOS's weaknesses and how he felt they could've been done better, you can see a lot of the DNA of TNG in there (like having the captain stay aboard ship while someone else leads the landing parties). And you can see a proto-replicator in Gerrold's 1981 Trek novel The Galactic Whirlpool.
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Old April 2 2013, 04:42 PM   #33
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Re: Animated Series

^^^
Also, if you read the earlier versions of the TNG Writer's Guide, you can see Gerrold's ideas and style all over it. In my opinion, at least.
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Old April 2 2013, 04:58 PM   #34
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Re: Animated Series

^Yes, Gerrold did write the bulk of the original series bible. Although presumably all the ideas were developed in collaboration with Roddenberry, Fontana, and Justman. It should be all four of them who get creator credit for TNG.
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Old April 2 2013, 05:07 PM   #35
Mysterion
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Re: Animated Series

Christopher wrote: View Post
^Yes, Gerrold did write the bulk of the original series bible. Although presumably all the ideas were developed in collaboration with Roddenberry, Fontana, and Justman. It should be all four of them who get creator credit for TNG.
I agree.

Not my intent to slight the others involved.

It's just that was the first thought that struck way back when I first read that document. In fact it is Justman, IIRC, that deserves credit for the presence of Worf in TNG, for example. I'm sure there are other aspects of the series that can be traced back to any one of those folks individually and/or in combination.
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Old April 2 2013, 07:24 PM   #36
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Re: Animated Series

And it was Justman who convinced Roddenberry to test Patrick Stewart for the lead, IIRC.
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Old April 2 2013, 10:57 PM   #37
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Re: Animated Series

Christopher wrote: View Post
If you read Gerrold's 1973 The World of Star Trek, wherein he talks about TOS's weaknesses and how he felt they could've been done better, you can see a lot of the DNA of TNG in there (like having the captain stay aboard ship while someone else leads the landing parties).
But boy did TNG turn their back on the captain staying on ship - culminating in the self-parody of no command personel staying onboard in the two-parter Descent which resulted in Dr. Crusher being placed in command. That really stretched the old "willful suspension of disbelief!"
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Old April 2 2013, 11:08 PM   #38
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Re: Animated Series

Mysterion wrote: View Post
Not my intent to slight the others involved.

It's just that was the first thought that struck way back when I first read that document. In fact it is Justman, IIRC, that deserves credit for the presence of Worf in TNG, for example. I'm sure there are other aspects of the series that can be traced back to any one of those folks individually and/or in combination.
Please forgive if I be retracing steps already laid, but isn't this also a bit of history repeating itself as in Gene Roddenberry having a clear and definite m.o.?

I say this in terms of many elements fandom found to be endearing trademark features of TOS were contributed by a various folks (not the least of which being Gene Coon).
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Old April 2 2013, 11:27 PM   #39
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Re: Animated Series

Danger Ace wrote: View Post
Mysterion wrote: View Post
Not my intent to slight the others involved.

It's just that was the first thought that struck way back when I first read that document. In fact it is Justman, IIRC, that deserves credit for the presence of Worf in TNG, for example. I'm sure there are other aspects of the series that can be traced back to any one of those folks individually and/or in combination.
Please forgive if I be retracing steps already laid, but isn't this also a bit of history repeating itself as in Gene Roddenberry having a clear and definite m.o.?

I say this in terms of many elements fandom found to be endearing trademark features of TOS were contributed by a various folks (not the least of which being Gene Coon).
Yes, and (to put thread back on track) in TAS as well.
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Old April 2 2013, 11:30 PM   #40
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Re: Animated Series

Danger Ace wrote: View Post
But boy did TNG turn their back on the captain staying on ship - culminating in the self-parody of no command personel staying onboard in the two-parter Descent which resulted in Dr. Crusher being placed in command. That really stretched the old "willful suspension of disbelief!"
You ain't kidding. It was one of the most retarded things I've ever seen on Star Trek and that's saying something.
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Old April 2 2013, 11:32 PM   #41
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Re: Animated Series

BillJ wrote: View Post
Danger Ace wrote: View Post
But boy did TNG turn their back on the captain staying on ship - culminating in the self-parody of no command personel staying onboard in the two-parter Descent which resulted in Dr. Crusher being placed in command. That really stretched the old "willful suspension of disbelief!"
You ain't kidding. It was one of the most retarded things I've ever seen on Star Trek and that's saying something.
It could've been worse, they could've put Troi in command. But by that time they were trying to expand the roles of the females for the sake of the viewers. Crusher was at least convincing in the role unlike Troi in Disaster.
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Old April 3 2013, 08:19 AM   #42
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Re: Animated Series

Christopher wrote: View Post
Lance wrote: View Post
As for the frequent complaints -- sure, the animation was occasionally dodgy, but I'd argue no less so than most TV cartoons of the seventies. There was a lot of cutting corners in those days right across the board.
Indeed, while Filmation's animation (the actual movement of things) was about as limited and repetitive as it got in '70s cartoons, the quality of their artwork was above average for the period. Look at shows from their main competitor Hanna-Barbera in the same period and the animation and background paintings tended to be rather sloppier and rougher. Filmation shows may not have had much motion, but they looked good.


But in my estimation, TAS is just made of win. How could it not be? It's essentially 22 extra episodes of TOS complete with the original actors. I love the way Filmation put real attention to detail in, too. Oh sure, there are pink Tribbles and other occasional errors, but I love how for example the Enterprise fly-bys were done by actually taking stock footage from TOS and rotoscoping. Or that the interior sets of the Enterprise are basically identical to the ones seen in TOS. Little details mean a lot, and TAS really does strive to be faithful to its parent live action series for the most part. That it has been so neglected within the fandom for so long is regrettable.
Indeed. It was made by people who were big fans of the original show. And of course it was story-edited by D.C. Fontana, and about half its episodes were written by veterans of the original series (well, 10 if you limit it only to TOS writers, 12 if you include the ones written by Walter Koenig and TOS director Marc Daniels). It's as authentic a continuation as we could possibly have gotten in animation. The other studios that made proposals for an animated ST all wanted to add kid sidekicks and cute alien mascots and just generally turn it into a stock kids' cartoon. But the show we got, other than toning down the sex and violence, strove to tell the same kind of stories that TOS had told, albeit with unlimited freedom to create exotic aliens and settings.

And it won an Emmy Award for the episode 'How Sharper Than A Serpent's Tooth'-a feat not equaled by any animated series until 'Heart of Ice' from Batman: TAS won.
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Old April 3 2013, 12:58 PM   #43
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Re: Animated Series

Danger Ace wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
If you read Gerrold's 1973 The World of Star Trek, wherein he talks about TOS's weaknesses and how he felt they could've been done better, you can see a lot of the DNA of TNG in there (like having the captain stay aboard ship while someone else leads the landing parties).
But boy did TNG turn their back on the captain staying on ship - culminating in the self-parody of no command personel staying onboard in the two-parter Descent which resulted in Dr. Crusher being placed in command. That really stretched the old "willful suspension of disbelief!"
Not to mention Chain of Command, where the entire senior staff was sent on a commando raid!
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Old April 3 2013, 01:16 PM   #44
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Re: Animated Series

ahh the joys of TV. Every Away Team is made up of senior staff and you can't help but think "is this really how you should be allocating your staff?" I'd imagine on most Starfleet vessels you're lucky to get two command crew on one team. Did they ever have a Captain bring attention to that like Jellicho did Troi's costume?
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Old April 3 2013, 01:20 PM   #45
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Re: Animated Series

NightJim wrote: View Post
ahh the joys of TV. Every Away Team is made up of senior staff and you can't help but think "is this really how you should be allocating your staff?" I'd imagine on most Starfleet vessels you're lucky to get two command crew on one team. Did they ever have a Captain bring attention to that like Jellicho did Troi's costume?
One of the [many] appealing things about The West Wing was taking the leader out of the focus.
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