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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

View Poll Results: How do you rate 7x06 "The Bells of St John"?
Poor 2 1.43%
Okay 18 12.86%
Good 21 15.00%
Great 39 27.86%
Outstanding 42 30.00%
Geronimo!! 18 12.86%
Voters: 140. You may not vote on this poll

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Old April 2 2013, 08:53 AM   #196
lvsxy808
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Re: 7x06 The Bells of St John - review/ discussion

Kai "the spy" wrote: View Post
First off, the title, once more, has absolutely nothing to do with the actual episode, aside from a brief mention. Moffat's done this before ("Let's Kill Hitler", anyone?!), and it's kind of annoying. I like subtle titles that don't just give a description of the threat, but it should have something to do with the plot.
Drive-by posting to defend the "Let's Kill Hitler" title.

There's some strong parallels inherent there. The Teselecta stopped their assassination of Hitler because they realized it was too soon - you can't kill Hitler before WWII because it would be changing time. That's one of the basic precepts of time travel. Likewise they knew that River couldn't kill the Doctor here because he dies in Utah in 2011. Likewise we knew they couldn't kill River here because we already know when she dies - in the Library.

So the "Let's Kill Hitler" title was actually an encapsulation of that entire aspect of time travel.

But I will grant you that "The Bells of St John" is a lot harder to explain. All I can come up with is that the Tardis phone is what called him back to action from his self-imposed exile which started the whole storyline off, but I'm not sure that's worth naming the whole episode after. Ah well. It's something else for us to spend pages and pages speculating over, if nothing else.

.
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Old April 2 2013, 09:00 AM   #197
The Mirrorball Man
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Re: 7x06 The Bells of St John - review/ discussion

lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
But I will grant you that "The Bells of St John" is a lot harder to explain. All I can come up with is that the Tardis phone is what called him back to action from his self-imposed exile which started the whole storyline off, but I'm not sure that's worth naming the whole episode after. Ah well. It's something else for us to spend pages and pages speculating over, if nothing else.
Unless... it's a red herring or something that will make sense later and yada yada.
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Old April 2 2013, 09:13 AM   #198
Konata Izumi
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Re: 7x06 The Bells of St John - review/ discussion

Kai "the spy" wrote: View Post
Seriously, how stupid does he think the audience is?!
In the words of Freddy Got Fingered: "He's stupid!" "Not stupid!" "He's stupid!" "Not stupid!" "He's stupid!" "Not stupid!"

I'm sorry but you don't seem to realize you listed many quite sensible details too you didn't quite catch - it's the opposite and you'd think after the complexity of the partly incoherent Series 6 there was no doubt about that...

There's nothing inherently stupid in repetition or else the tardis would be stupid it's just a matter of preference what you want repeated.

Yes I mad about calling things one finds difficult in one way or another stupid as it's not what it's supposed to mean

Last edited by Konata Izumi; April 2 2013 at 09:58 AM.
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Old April 2 2013, 12:46 PM   #199
Kai "the spy"
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Re: 7x06 The Bells of St John - review/ discussion

lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
Drive-by posting to defend the "Let's Kill Hitler" title.

There's some strong parallels inherent there. The Teselecta stopped their assassination of Hitler because they realized it was too soon - you can't kill Hitler before WWII because it would be changing time. That's one of the basic precepts of time travel. Likewise they knew that River couldn't kill the Doctor here because he dies in Utah in 2011. Likewise we knew they couldn't kill River here because we already know when she dies - in the Library.

So the "Let's Kill Hitler" title was actually an encapsulation of that entire aspect of time travel.
You know, I can actually accept that.

Konata Izumi wrote: View Post
Kai "the spy" wrote: View Post
Seriously, how stupid does he think the audience is?!
In the words of Freddy Got Fingered: "He's stupid!" "Not stupid!" "He's stupid!" "Not stupid!" "He's stupid!" "Not stupid!"

I'm sorry but you don't seem to realize you listed many quite sensible details too you didn't quite catch - it's the opposite and you'd think after the complexity of the partly incoherent Series 6 there was no doubt about that...

There's nothing inherently stupid in repetition or else the tardis would be stupid it's just a matter of preference what you want repeated.

Yes I mad about calling things one finds difficult in one way or another stupid as it's not what it's supposed to mean
So, you liked the way they did the "Doctor who?" bit these past episodes?!

Tell you something, dropped occasionally, I like it, too. I liked how it was done in "Boom Town", or "The Christmas Invasion". Because they did it once, the viewers catched it, smiled, and the show went on.

What I don't like is rubbing it in. It's like "Hey, fans, look, I just said the name of the show on-screen, and now I'll do it again. That was fun, saying it on-screen, right?! Let's do it again."

So, if you are entertained by this stupid bit, that's fine. I'm entertained by a lot of stupid bits. But let's call it what it is: Stupid.
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Old April 2 2013, 12:53 PM   #200
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Re: 7x06 The Bells of St John - review/ discussion

Kai "the spy" wrote: View Post
So, if you are entertained by this stupid bit, that's fine. I'm entertained by a lot of stupid bits. But let's call it what it is: Stupid.
I'll call it what it is: a humorous year-long tease for the season finale, in the spirit of the series 50th anniversary.
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Old April 2 2013, 01:17 PM   #201
Emh
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Re: 7x06 The Bells of St John - review/ discussion

Decent episode, a bit flat and the silliness was rather RTD-like now that I think back on it. Hopefully next week's episode is better.
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Old April 2 2013, 01:19 PM   #202
Ood Sigma
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Re: 7x06 The Bells of St John - review/ discussion

The only thing I didn't understand about the "Doctor who?" line is why The Doctor got so giddy about it. He's been told that it's "the question that must never be answered" because "silence will fall" so why is he so excited that it's being asked? You'd think he'd want to prevent people from saying that.
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Old April 2 2013, 02:05 PM   #203
Konata Izumi
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Re: 7x06 The Bells of St John - review/ discussion

Kai "the spy" wrote: View Post
So, if you are entertained by this stupid bit, that's fine. I'm entertained by a lot of stupid bits. But let's call it what it is: Stupid.
Stupid would be failing a modest goal, or setting the goal disproportionally low in the first place. A proper, unexpected moment of character exploration, and a repeated motif for foreshadowing, advertisement, and evoking feeling of affection in one, wouldn't be setting the goal too low for a couple of lines would it?

If you mean it's stupid because it's not particularly smart, wouldn't that mean, your face is stupid? Not stupid! It works great so what, exactly, would be stupid about it?

I don't like dismissing powerful communication as stupid. At best you'll miss something good and at worst you won't notice that something bad's happening.

Last edited by Konata Izumi; April 2 2013 at 02:31 PM.
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Old April 2 2013, 02:19 PM   #204
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Re: 7x06 The Bells of St John - review/ discussion

Kai "the spy" wrote: View Post
First off, the title, once more, has absolutely nothing to do with the actual episode, aside from a brief mention. Moffat's done this before ("Let's Kill Hitler", anyone?!), and it's kind of annoying. I like subtle titles that don't just give a description of the threat, but it should have something to do with the plot.
Let's Kill Hitler was annoying simply because the title was obviously chosen as a perfect attention grabbing WTF. Especially since it was revealed at the end of A Good Man Goes to War where we just had the three year mystery of River's identity answered and then we're told join the Doctor again in Let's Kill Hitler. Plus all the promotional material was playing up everything related to Hitler and Nazi Germany. In the end, Hitler has only one scene and the fact they were in Nazi Germany isn't relevant to the episode at all.

The Bells of St John on the other hand didn't have that kind of build up and it was obvious from all the plot descriptions that the episode had nothing to do with bells or a church or anything. The deal there was how to you give an episode with that plot that title and the way it was handled I thought was rather clever.
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Old April 2 2013, 02:23 PM   #205
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Re: 7x06 The Bells of St John - review/ discussion

I prefer these pretentious, offbeat titles to dumb ones like End of Time or outright lies like The Next Doctor or The Doctor's Daughter.
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Old April 2 2013, 02:29 PM   #206
The Wormhole
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Re: 7x06 The Bells of St John - review/ discussion

The Doctor's Daughter is less a lie and more the truth from a certain point of view.
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Old April 2 2013, 02:48 PM   #207
Konata Izumi
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Re: 7x06 The Bells of St John - review/ discussion

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
the fact they were in Nazi Germany isn't relevant to the episode at all.
It's to underline they're all war criminals. To make a point about punishment for the sake of petty personal gain.
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Old April 2 2013, 02:49 PM   #208
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Re: 7x06 The Bells of St John - review/ discussion

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
The Doctor's Daughter is less a lie and more the truth from a certain point of view.
Plus of course she was played by a Doctor's Daughter

Right, seen this again and have come to the conclusion that I think it sits between Great and Outstanding, probably nearer great. There's a lot to enjoy in it but it is a bit all over the place (and not in a good way like some of Moffat's episodes) and it all felt a little too familiar. Like I said before there are snippets of Partners in Crime, the Idiot Lantern and the Library 2 parter, but on second viewing the swivelly heads reminded me too much of the Beast Below and even the evil office workers seemed to evoke The Long Game.

None of this means I didn't enjoy it, because I did, especially the Doctor sending his double into battle, it just means I didn't love it. But you know, enjoyable is just fine
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Old April 2 2013, 03:10 PM   #209
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Re: 7x06 The Bells of St John - review/ discussion

DalekJim wrote: View Post
I prefer these pretentious, offbeat titles to dumb ones like End of Time or outright lies like The Next Doctor or The Doctor's Daughter.

Using my best Tennant impression.

WELLLLLLL, a female soldier born from a DNA sample could qualify as the doctor's daughter.
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Old April 2 2013, 03:47 PM   #210
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Re: 7x06 The Bells of St John - review/ discussion

Well that was an okay episode? Neither special nor awful. The recurring moment of wifi'd people crying out "I don't know where I am" was kinda creepy, it's the sort of moment I wonder came out of a writer's nightmare.

I'm struggling to be interested in Clara but she wasn't actively annoying this time.
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