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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old April 1 2013, 09:32 PM   #1
TrekDoggyDog
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Voyager Weirdness

Hey All, Im just starting Voyager after a 10 year hiatus. Im a big time fan of TNG and DS9 which I thought took star trek to a whole new level

Voyager seems to be several steps backward. I am only halfway through the series 3 though.

Some of the things i've noticed are:

* the amount of "filler" episodes. TNG and DS9 had them but Voyager seems to be very little substance.

* The aliens are pretty one dimensional. Kayzon are like klingons that were banished from the home world, Talaxians, Ocampa and the Vidians dont seem to have much depth either

* The Voyager non-humans looked really.. well.. HUMAN. Kes might as well have been a chick I dated in highschool, Tuvok looks more human than vulcan, B'Lanna is like Meg Griffin with a head injury (look at her compared to Kaylar)

* Janeway seems REALLY well.. arrogant and almost Sarah Palin'ish.. I saw another thread about her hairstyle and totally agree. I always thought Sisko was a bit too wooden and puppety at first but he grew on me. Janeway seems to have this "I dont care what you think of me, just follow my orders" attitude

* I finished the episode where Janeway and Chakotay were trapped on the planet with some terminal illness. Why didnt the writers put a little more depth into their relationship? I think there would have been a great opportunity for a "Riker/Troi" type of relationship. Seems a shame to have Robert Beltran seem so ..well...neuterred for lack of a better term.


There is more but those are the things that really stand out to me and seem to be constants. There is a lot of good in it though. Characters like the Doctor, Neelix and Seska are the reason I fell in love with Star Trek.

Hope it gets better.
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Old April 1 2013, 10:23 PM   #2
R. Star
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Re: Voyager Weirdness

To your points...

-Voyager... yes had a lot of filler episodes as you said. But what made DS9's user of filler so much better was it was relevant filler. Voyager usually just pads out scripts with either endless technobabble or scenes about how awesome Janeway is supposed to be.

-About the aliens, to be fair... they were flying home so most of the aliens really don't get a chance to get explored. The Kazon did and were obviously lacking. The same with the Talaxians and Viidians. If Neelix was a typical Talaxian I can't feel too bad about their homeworld being occupied. The Ocampa were a huge missed opportunity. Despite how crazy weird some of their racial aspects were, they could've been really explored through Kes, but weren't.

-Well the humans with funny forehead aliens are a recurring Trek theme, and one Voyager just embraced. Can't really rip into Voyager specifically for that one.

-Janeway... oh I could rant about her for hours. Really the biggest flaw is the writers seem to have this tendency to put her into manufactured moral dilemmas where it's "I'm the captain and I'm making the call" as a way to compensate for her being the first female captain. In reality they usually just make her look silly, insane or into some sort of parody.

-Haha! I'm a strong advocate of the theory that Janeway had Chakotay neutered and that's why he's so mild and tame after the pilot. But if Kate Mulgrew is to be believed, she's the reason they never got together. Mulgrew said she didn't think it would be appropriate for her to get involved with a subordinate. So instead she dates a Gestapo agent later on instead.
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Old April 2 2013, 12:38 AM   #3
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Re: Voyager Weirdness

TrekDoggyDog wrote: View Post

*blah blah*

* The Voyager non-humans looked really.. well.. HUMAN. Kes might as well have been a chick I dated in highschool, Tuvok looks more human than vulcan, B'Lanna is like Meg Griffin with a head injury (look at her compared to Kaylar)

*blah blah*
B'Elanna's father was Human while her mother was Klingon.

K'Ehleyr's father was Klingon. As you can guess, her mother was Human.

In genetics, that can make a difference in how prominent a trait or two turn out. The development of the cranial ridges in Klingons be more expressed through the male sex chromosomes or other traits passed down from the father. It would explain why B'Elanna had ridges like that.


P.S. At least several Vulcans before Voyager came out looked a lot more Human than Tuvok did...
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Old April 2 2013, 01:25 AM   #4
dub
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Re: Voyager Weirdness

TrekDoggyDog wrote: View Post
* The Voyager non-humans looked really.. well.. HUMAN. Kes might as well have been a chick I dated in highschool, Tuvok looks more human than vulcan, B'Lanna is like Meg Griffin with a head injury (look at her compared to Kaylar)
And on the other end of the spectrum, we have Janeway's otherworldly bun. Oh wait, wrong thread.
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Old April 2 2013, 01:28 AM   #5
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Re: Voyager Weirdness

how can you be starting to watch voyager when you said you're on season 3 in another thread?

too much filler? you're going to hate tos then. no continuity there

also 'you saw another thread about her hairstyle..' which you started

neelix is the reason you fell in love with star trek? thats a whole barrel of crazyness there

( and might i suggest BorgQueenBoobs for the next one)
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Old April 2 2013, 02:07 AM   #6
R. Star
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Re: Voyager Weirdness

That's our favorite poster?

BorgQueenBoobs? Now why didn't I think of that.
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Old April 2 2013, 02:16 AM   #7
teacake
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Re: Voyager Weirdness

Her boobs are kind of flattish for tv boobs.
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Old April 2 2013, 02:49 AM   #8
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Re: Voyager Weirdness

Not if you interpret it like "Muse", with Seven as Queen of the Borg.
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Old April 2 2013, 02:58 AM   #9
Captain Kathryn
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Re: Voyager Weirdness

TrekDoggyDog wrote: View Post
Hey All, Im just starting Voyager after a 10 year hiatus. Im a big time fan of TNG and DS9 which I thought took star trek to a whole new level

Voyager seems to be several steps backward. I am only halfway through the series 3 though.

Some of the things i've noticed are:

* the amount of "filler" episodes. TNG and DS9 had them but Voyager seems to be very little substance.

* The aliens are pretty one dimensional. Kayzon are like klingons that were banished from the home world, Talaxians, Ocampa and the Vidians dont seem to have much depth either

* The Voyager non-humans looked really.. well.. HUMAN. Kes might as well have been a chick I dated in highschool, Tuvok looks more human than vulcan, B'Lanna is like Meg Griffin with a head injury (look at her compared to Kaylar)

* Janeway seems REALLY well.. arrogant and almost Sarah Palin'ish.. I saw another thread about her hairstyle and totally agree. I always thought Sisko was a bit too wooden and puppety at first but he grew on me. Janeway seems to have this "I dont care what you think of me, just follow my orders" attitude

* I finished the episode where Janeway and Chakotay were trapped on the planet with some terminal illness. Why didnt the writers put a little more depth into their relationship? I think there would have been a great opportunity for a "Riker/Troi" type of relationship. Seems a shame to have Robert Beltran seem so ..well...neuterred for lack of a better term.


There is more but those are the things that really stand out to me and seem to be constants. There is a lot of good in it though. Characters like the Doctor, Neelix and Seska are the reason I fell in love with Star Trek.

Hope it gets better.
Errr...

Yeah I am pretty sure this is StarTrekSlut again...my apologies to the OP if you are in fact NOT StarTreKSlut.

And dude...if you love DS9 and TNG so much...why don't you go post there?

At least you didn't use any racial slurs this time if you are, in fact, the other poster I was referring to.
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Last edited by Captain Kathryn; April 2 2013 at 03:22 AM.
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Old April 2 2013, 03:14 AM   #10
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Re: Voyager Weirdness

junxon wrote: View Post
neelix is the reason you fell in love with star trek? thats a whole barrel of crazyness there
Ok to be fair, he mentioned the Doctor too who was amazing.

But seriously? Neelix?
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Old April 2 2013, 03:28 AM   #11
TrekDoggyDog
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Re: Voyager Weirdness

I always thought Spock looked a little too human also (it was the 60's after all. And I believe his father Sarek made this comment in a flashback in Star Trek VII the undiscovered country?). In TNG and DS9, Vulcans looked a lot more distinct. Romulans ALWAYS looked great.... Even Mr Nimoys own makeup (for the TNG cameo's i remember) made him look distinctly LESS human.

Not sure I buy the genetics thing. I dont expect her to be decked out with a house of martok bandolier but even B'Lanna's demeanor was pretty "neuterred" (i really cant think of a better word.. sorry!!)

Also, Re: your genetics comment, (and I know this is a bit off topic), but i start to think about Alexander Rozhenko who was a quarter human I guess? As a child, he looked very distinctly human but seemed to get more klingon as he aged into a young adult.. (he developed the klingon incisors for example). So maybe you are right. Your mileage may vary


Finn wrote: View Post
TrekDoggyDog wrote: View Post

*blah blah*

* The Voyager non-humans looked really.. well.. HUMAN. Kes might as well have been a chick I dated in highschool, Tuvok looks more human than vulcan, B'Lanna is like Meg Griffin with a head injury (look at her compared to Kaylar)

*blah blah*
B'Elanna's father was Human while her mother was Klingon.

K'Ehleyr's father was Klingon. As you can guess, her mother was Human.

In genetics, that can make a difference in how prominent a trait or two turn out. The development of the cranial ridges in Klingons be more expressed through the male sex chromosomes or other traits passed down from the father. It would explain why B'Elanna had ridges like that.


P.S. At least several Vulcans before Voyager came out looked a lot more Human than Tuvok did...
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Old April 2 2013, 03:32 AM   #12
TrekDoggyDog
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Re: Voyager Weirdness

Come on! Neelix is GREAT! Imagine Guinan with a sense of humor, or Quark with a heart of gold! I think Neelix was the perfect balance between the two.

And the banter between him and Tuvoc is always priceless. I dont think Tuvoc ever even corrected him once on his "Mr Vulcan" nickname. Looks like he's more or less given in to Neelix charm!


Captain Kathryn wrote: View Post
junxon wrote: View Post
neelix is the reason you fell in love with star trek? thats a whole barrel of crazyness there
Ok to be fair, he mentioned the Doctor too who was amazing.

But seriously? Neelix?
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Old April 2 2013, 03:35 AM   #13
Captain Kathryn
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Re: Voyager Weirdness

TrekDoggyDog wrote: View Post
Come on! Neelix is GREAT! Imagine Guinan with a sense of humor, or Quark with a heart of gold! I think Neelix was the perfect balance between the two.

And the banter between him and Tuvoc is always priceless. I dont think Tuvoc ever even corrected him once on his "Mr Vulcan" nickname. Looks like he's more or less given in to Neelix charm!
I don't hate Neelix (some people do) because he did do the best he could and he did lighten up certain situations and scenes, but would I call him my reason for loving Trek? Noooo, not by a longshot lol. The Doctor lightened up scenes plenty and still managed to maintain his intelligence and wit and sarcasm.

Tuvok did usually keep his anger under control whenever Neelix would make a remark like "Mr. Vulcan".

But deep down he was thinking:

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Old April 2 2013, 03:37 AM   #14
CorporalClegg
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Re: Voyager Weirdness

TrekDoggyDog wrote: View Post
Tuvoc ever even corrected him once on his "Mr Vulcan" nickname. Looks like he's more or less given in to Neelix charm!
I have no doubt, however, he was quick to correct misspellings of his name.
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Old April 2 2013, 03:38 AM   #15
TrekDoggyDog
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Re: Voyager Weirdness

Captain Kathryn wrote: View Post
TrekDoggyDog wrote: View Post
Hey All, Im just starting Voyager after a 10 year hiatus. Im a big time fan of TNG and DS9 which I thought took star trek to a whole new level

Voyager seems to be several steps backward. I am only halfway through the series 3 though.

Some of the things i've noticed are:

* the amount of "filler" episodes. TNG and DS9 had them but Voyager seems to be very little substance.

* The aliens are pretty one dimensional. Kayzon are like klingons that were banished from the home world, Talaxians, Ocampa and the Vidians dont seem to have much depth either

* The Voyager non-humans looked really.. well.. HUMAN. Kes might as well have been a chick I dated in highschool, Tuvok looks more human than vulcan, B'Lanna is like Meg Griffin with a head injury (look at her compared to Kaylar)

* Janeway seems REALLY well.. arrogant and almost Sarah Palin'ish.. I saw another thread about her hairstyle and totally agree. I always thought Sisko was a bit too wooden and puppety at first but he grew on me. Janeway seems to have this "I dont care what you think of me, just follow my orders" attitude

* I finished the episode where Janeway and Chakotay were trapped on the planet with some terminal illness. Why didnt the writers put a little more depth into their relationship? I think there would have been a great opportunity for a "Riker/Troi" type of relationship. Seems a shame to have Robert Beltran seem so ..well...neuterred for lack of a better term.


There is more but those are the things that really stand out to me and seem to be constants. There is a lot of good in it though. Characters like the Doctor, Neelix and Seska are the reason I fell in love with Star Trek.

Hope it gets better.
Errr...

Yeah I am pretty sure this is StarTrekSlut again...my apologies to the OP if you are in fact NOT StarTreKSlut.

I don't see any reference to blokes in your post, however StarTrekSlut used those very same asterisks you are using before every point as well.

And dude...if you love DS9 and TNG so much...why don't you go post there?

At least you didn't use any racial slurs this time if you are, in fact, the other poster I was referring to.
Did I miss something? Racial slurs? And am I referencing TNG or DS9 too much or something? I just wanted to point out the dichotomy between that class of star trek writing and that which is used on Voyager. (and even Enterprise which ive seen a little more of). I think both these series were done without Gene Roddenberry influence since Im pretty sure he passed away halfway through deep space nine

As I mentioned earlier, ive seen TNG and DS9 several times. Im only now going through voyager which is why I started this voyager thread in the voyager section. Is this in error?
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