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Old March 23 2013, 06:08 AM   #1936
teacake
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Captain Kathryn wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
I agree, cameo was lame. She should have ended up on the ship through some convenient ship-is-taxi storyline and then taken over the command when all the crisis started.
I would have liked that~~!!!!
How incredibly awesome would it have been. Picard can have his clone crisis and Janeway can run the ship.

Though they didn't do this it's clear that the cameo was all about showing us that Janeway made admiral first, so there's that.
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Old March 23 2013, 06:12 AM   #1937
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Re: Does It Get Better???

AdmiralScreed wrote: View Post

And I would be even more in the minority by saying TMP is probably my favorite Trek movie. It's actually more of a tossup between TMP and GEN, but TMP is the only Original Series movie I can stomach. It's a nice, slow, cerebral story that really stays true to what Trek is all about; exploration, ideas, etc.
I have so overwatched all of Trek, watched it into pulp. But not that one. Seen it twice. Incredible tedium.
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Old March 31 2013, 10:08 AM   #1938
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Re: Does It Get Better???

tighr wrote: View Post
More proof that Janeway just didn't really care about dead people. All the people dead and gone because of HER actions, and she suddenly cares about Seven and Chakotay? Naw, she's lying to us, right to our faces. The real reason for picking that time and place to go back in time is because they are right next to a transwarp hub, and that's just the macguffin she needs to magick everyone back to the Alpha Quadrant. It's just a bonus that Chakotay and Seven haven't taken a dirt nap by this point in time, and it's mere coincidence that Neelix is happy on his Talaxian harem colony.
I don't see it as any different than Picard.
He kept an emotional distance from his crew for 7 years.
TNG showed us thru Troi that the final test to be in a command position means accepting crewmen are going die sometime due to your orders. Besides, who joins the military, gets sent on assignment and doesn't think they don't have a possibility of dying?
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Old March 31 2013, 10:11 AM   #1939
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Re: Does It Get Better???

exodus wrote: View Post
tighr wrote: View Post
More proof that Janeway just didn't really care about dead people. All the people dead and gone because of HER actions, and she suddenly cares about Seven and Chakotay? Naw, she's lying to us, right to our faces. The real reason for picking that time and place to go back in time is because they are right next to a transwarp hub, and that's just the macguffin she needs to magick everyone back to the Alpha Quadrant. It's just a bonus that Chakotay and Seven haven't taken a dirt nap by this point in time, and it's mere coincidence that Neelix is happy on his Talaxian harem colony.
I don't see it as any different than Picard.
He kept an emotional distance from his crew for 7 years.
TNG showed us thru Troi that the final test to be in a command position means accepting crewmen are going die sometime due to your orders. Besides, who joins the military, gets sent on assignment and doesn't think they don't have a possibility of dying?
First thing I'm gonna say is even though I think Janeway is imbalanced at times and definitely bipolar, even at her worst... which is executing Tuvix or torturing the Equinox people so she can hunt them down, she still cares for her people on a fundamental level.

Sure she screws up an awful lot, but there's plenty of blame to attach to her without making stuff up. As for accepting that people are going to die? Sure it is part of life in a military hierarchy. But there is a moral difference between seeing people die and ordering someone to die for the benefit of the unit. That's something I don't think I could do, so props to our military people who can.
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Old March 31 2013, 10:26 AM   #1940
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Re: Does It Get Better???

This was Janeway's first command (and it wasn't. Conflicting canon.).

She was figuring stuff out.

A 27 year old Picard lifted his dead Captain off the con, pushed it one side and took command of a Star ship during a frakking battle 3 years before Kathryn Janeway was Born in 2336.
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Old March 31 2013, 10:31 AM   #1941
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Re: Does It Get Better???

exodus wrote: View Post
tighr wrote: View Post
More proof that Janeway just didn't really care about dead people. All the people dead and gone because of HER actions, and she suddenly cares about Seven and Chakotay? Naw, she's lying to us, right to our faces. The real reason for picking that time and place to go back in time is because they are right next to a transwarp hub, and that's just the macguffin she needs to magick everyone back to the Alpha Quadrant. It's just a bonus that Chakotay and Seven haven't taken a dirt nap by this point in time, and it's mere coincidence that Neelix is happy on his Talaxian harem colony.
I don't see it as any different than Picard.
He kept an emotional distance from his crew for 7 years.
TNG showed us thru Troi that the final test to be in a command position means accepting crewmen are going die sometime due to your orders. Besides, who joins the military, gets sent on assignment and doesn't think they don't have a possibility of dying?
The entire point of my quote is that Admiral Janeway claims she is doing this for Chakotay and Seven (and to a lesser extent, Tuvok), when in reality she is doing it because their location in proximity to the transwarp hub is convenient.

She lies to us. Just as your example with Troi, she cares more about the mission than the people; the difference being, Janeway uses catharsis to make us believe otherwise.
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Old March 31 2013, 11:17 AM   #1942
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Re: Does It Get Better???

If Admiral Janeway actually wanted them to sneak through that Enemy Mine, she should have brought an advanced cloaking device with her, not armour. The Admiral's problem was that what ever she told her younger self to do, young Kathryn would fight her against her own selfinterest becuase she's bitter, surly and contrary, so the admiral had to "shape" the mission parameter so that young kathryn would rebel as expected and needed for the day to be won out.
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Old March 31 2013, 11:28 AM   #1943
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Re: Does It Get Better???

That's not the impression I got due to the fact that several times they show that she herself isn't happy with the life she has back in the AQ because she feels her family isn't complete. She even says several times how hardned she's become due too and how it's made her forget the optimistic person she used to be. It mirrors exactly what Seven says in "Imprefection", that Janeway will never get over Seven dying. Janeway doesnt do it for her crew or for any hub, she does it for herself because after all her struggles of trying to get home she herself came home to nothing. She lost her best friend to mental illness and her potential mate and adopted daughter to death. Adm. Janeway is an example of a parent who's child has died before they do. Janeway hates that she is like Ransom and goes back to a time where she can get them home before she become that.
While it maybe selfish, it's very human.
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Old March 31 2013, 01:42 PM   #1944
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Oh no. I wasn't doubting what drove her into the past, I just talking about the kid gloves the old lady had to use to manoeuvre her younger self into doing exactly what she wanted her to do. If Admiral Janeway said "I want to sneak through" then Janeway would have instantly rebelled and declared that they will attack the Borg because it the most righteous thing they can do... Meanwhile if Admiral Janeway said that she wanted to attack the Borg, it is then that our Captain would have said "No, we must quietly sneak through because we'll lose good people in a brawl it's doubtful we can completely come out on top of."

I used the word "contrary" to describe her character and Captain Braxton would agree with me.

Janeway can't always be the hero with the real deal plan unless she bullies and ridicules everyone else into admitting that they are wrong with bad plans... Which is me just overstating how often a device used by writers, is for minor characters to walk out shitty foolish ideas no one should ruminate so that the hero can shoot down whereafter said hero looks more intelligent and even more amazing.

Notice how in Void when Tuvok suggested that they murder every one one they meet and take their shit, but it was wise Janeway who reasoned out logically eventually that piracy and murder is naughty and wrong, and right now it just wasn't a good fit for the direction she thought about taking the ship in.
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Old March 31 2013, 10:29 PM   #1945
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Sorry, I wasn't replying to you Guy.
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Old March 31 2013, 11:10 PM   #1946
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Re: Does It Get Better???



I get caught out like that all the time.
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Old April 1 2013, 05:29 PM   #1947
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
If Admiral Janeway actually wanted them to sneak through that Enemy Mine, she should have brought an advanced cloaking device with her, not armour.
She brought both. Through some magical television macguffin, the armor was compatible with Voyager's technology but the advanced cloaking device was not.

Recall that Admiral Janeway parked her shuttlecraft at the doors of the Unimatrix Complex.
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Old April 1 2013, 09:01 PM   #1948
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Re: Does It Get Better???

And you don't think that that was on purpose?
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