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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old March 22 2013, 01:59 AM   #76
Marsden
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

SchwEnt wrote: View Post
I see. But still...

Economics and money aside, I wonder if Jefferies had any personal interest in what was essentially his own creation? He could have worked on an Enterprise project, after he retired, in his spare time, solely as a personal project.

As far as screen-accurate work, that'd be up to Jefferies. Any research or details would be up to him. He wouldn't be doing it on a television production payroll, so he'd get final say and wouldn't be limited in any way.

MJ could go for screen-accurate, canon, semi-canon, original design, intended design, or any variation he desired. If fans could accept inaccuracies or variations from FJ, certainly MJ would be allowed similar freedom.

Plus, being Matt Jefferies, many would take his work as gospel, whatever he produced.
Did Matt Jefferies own his creations, or were they the property of GR or the network? Maybe he would have had to buy a license or pay a royalty. Just because he created it doesn't mean the people he worked for weren't the legal "owners" of it. The expense of buying a license to use your own work very well could be enough to squelch any urges to do something like you suggest, no matter how well accepted.
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Old March 22 2013, 10:56 AM   #77
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Marsden wrote: View Post
Did Matt Jefferies own his creations, or were they the property of GR or the network? Maybe he would have had to buy a license or pay a royalty. Just because he created it doesn't mean the people he worked for weren't the legal "owners" of it. The expense of buying a license to use your own work very well could be enough to squelch any urges to do something like you suggest, no matter how well accepted.
Jeffries didn't own the rights to his STAR TREK designs; the legal ownership of STAR TREK was mostly split between Paramount and Gene Roddenberry.

Joseph beat Jeffries to the punch and scored financially when the getting was good (before anybody realized the value of enforcing certain rights).

But there's no indication that Jeffries would ever have created a blueprint package, even if there had been no Joseph. If Jeffries had published anything, I think it would have been a sketchbook of his rough set designs as viewed from an angle, like he always drew them, not a set of technical plans and orthographic elevations like (it turns out) the fans really wanted.

I read that the FJ blueprints would easily have been on the NY Times Bestseller list if they had been a book. But they were classified as a "special product."
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Old March 22 2013, 10:59 AM   #78
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Was Mike McMaster's work (Bridge, D7, Romulan BOP) ever licensed?

What about Geoffrey Mandel's early work (Independence, K-7)?
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Old March 22 2013, 11:23 AM   #79
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Was Mike McMaster's work (Bridge, D7, Romulan BOP) ever licensed?

What about Geoffrey Mandel's early work (Independence, K-7)?

You know, it looks to me like McMaster just put his work out there by mail order and waited to see if anybody sued. And as far as I ever heard, he either flew under the studio's radar or they considered him smallfry, being self-published and all.

Paramount must have seen his classified ads in STARLOG. I don't know if they ever contacted him. And of course he died very young. I love his drawings, especially the bridge.

Geoffrey Mandel's K-7 looks like the same deal. The K-7 design rights would be complicated because most of it is a direct copy, line for line, of a NASA design for an inflatable, orbital docking target if I recall (and I don't very well).

There was a recent case on the Internet of some absolutely gorgeous CGI plans and elevations for an enlarged version of the LOST IN SPACE Jupiter II. They poured a large amount of work and loving care into this project and it was a dream to look at. Then Kevin Burns enforced his rights over the whole LIS property and shut these artists down. They were never going to make a cent, but he was protecting the property from slipping out of his control.
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Old March 22 2013, 12:15 PM   #80
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Regardless of how history played out since then dedicated fans have paid homage to Jefferies and far surpassed FJ. Particularly over the past decade or so I've seen work I could never have envisioned back in the day. Fans are creating schematics and deck plans that replicate what we saw onscreen down to the set decor as actual ship fixtures.

Speaking for myself I'm still not quite wholly satisfied with my own work primarily because I lack first-hand access to original props, sets and/or original construction drawings. That said for decades I cringed seeing the TOS shuttlecraft drawn and illustrated poorly even by "official" sources. Eventually out of dedicated interest and frustration you take a crack at it yourself.

FJ's work initially fascinated and inspired us and then we went out and did it better several times over.
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Old March 22 2013, 10:44 PM   #81
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

^^ You're Galileo is the best shuttlecraft I've ever seen. Great work.
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Old March 23 2013, 01:10 PM   #82
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Was Mike McMaster's work (Bridge, D7, Romulan BOP) ever licensed?

What about Geoffrey Mandel's early work (Independence, K-7)?

You know, it looks to me like McMaster just put his work out there by mail order and waited to see if anybody sued. And as far as I ever heard, he either flew under the studio's radar or they considered him smallfry, being self-published and all.

Paramount must have seen his classified ads in STARLOG. I don't know if they ever contacted him. And of course he died very young. I love his drawings, especially the bridge.
McMaster's D7 blueprints were sold by Roddenberry's Lincoln Enterprises.
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Old March 24 2013, 02:48 PM   #83
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

^And along with FJ's Enterprise prints, were reproduced by FASA for their Star Trek role-playing game.
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Old March 31 2013, 07:23 PM   #84
CorporalCaptain
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

FalTorPan wrote: View Post
ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Was Mike McMaster's work (Bridge, D7, Romulan BOP) ever licensed?

What about Geoffrey Mandel's early work (Independence, K-7)?

You know, it looks to me like McMaster just put his work out there by mail order and waited to see if anybody sued. And as far as I ever heard, he either flew under the studio's radar or they considered him smallfry, being self-published and all.

Paramount must have seen his classified ads in STARLOG. I don't know if they ever contacted him. And of course he died very young. I love his drawings, especially the bridge.
McMaster's D7 blueprints were sold by Roddenberry's Lincoln Enterprises.
King Daniel wrote: View Post
^And along with FJ's Enterprise prints, were reproduced by FASA for their Star Trek role-playing game.
I don't think any of these observations settles the question either way.
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Old March 31 2013, 10:05 PM   #85
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Forbin wrote: View Post
I'd say that while FJ started me on the road, I was even more inspired by Jackill and Ships of the Star Fleet. Only I wanted MY diagrams to be in color!
http://www.inpayne.com/portfolio/datasheets.html

Personally, I'd give my eyes to have a DST model of the Peregrine!
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Old April 1 2013, 05:54 PM   #86
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

I have a nice model of it.
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Old April 14 2013, 10:25 PM   #87
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Great work too.
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Old April 17 2013, 01:36 PM   #88
Lenny Nurdbol
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Lets be clear. To criticize FJ's work is not an indictment to devalue it. It's fair commentary without taking away any credit to FJ or any significance of what it meant to fans at the time. As has been said upthread it is an important and significant work in terms of Trek merchandising, indeed in genre material merchandising overall.[/QUOTE]

Criticizing is all that I see on this website.
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Old April 18 2013, 09:53 AM   #89
FalTorPan
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

The whole "a work is better if it is based on actual behind-the-scenes material" argument doesn't hold much water with me. I find set blueprints and the like to be fascinating artifacts, but a fictional spaceship like the Enterprise exists in the imagination, largely inspired by what we see and hear on our television or theater screens. If the end result captures that imagination and fuels it further, then it's successful, whether or not a given room on Deck 15 matches the shape and size of its stage plan for a given episode. (Sets evolve over time as well, as demanded by production needs or artistic whim. Which arrangement(s) are to be taken as "gospel" for blueprinting purposes?)
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Old April 18 2013, 02:20 PM   #90
Robert Comsol
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

FalTorPan wrote: View Post
The whole "a work is better if it is based on actual behind-the-scenes material" argument doesn't hold much water with me.
I'm not sure I interpret your statement correctly, but IMHO the behind-the-scenes material would refer to the deck functions laid out in The Making of Star Trek which FJ followed blindly and which is sometimes not compatible with the actual on-screen information (e.g. according to "Amok Time", "Elaan of Troyius" and possibly "The Day of the Dove" sickbay is on Deck 5, not Deck 7).

FalTorPan wrote: View Post
I find set blueprints and the like to be fascinating artifacts, but a fictional spaceship like the Enterprise exists in the imagination, largely inspired by what we see and hear on our television or theater screens.
I'd say that most of the sickbay visualizations were compatible with the studio set blueprints so I fail to understand why FJ simply ignored these. IMHO, the main reason to have blueprints of any given vessel, is orientation and guidance, not confusion or fantasy.

FalTorPan wrote: View Post
Sets evolve over time as well, as demanded by production needs or artistic whim. Which arrangement(s) are to be taken as "gospel" for blueprinting purposes?
If possible all arrangements, of course, if that's not possible the arrangement that answers more questions than it raises new ones, IMHO.

It is a time-consuming and difficult effort (a jigsaw puzzle is a walk in the park for comparison), and for deck 5 / astro-medicine ward 4 (sickbay probably extends down to deck 7...) I first had to compile all visual sickbay information from TOS during the past weeks (would you like a copy?) before I started to assemble the corridors in what I hope will be the most palatable presentation (I might be able to publish my draft in the "Fan Art" section this weekend).

The one thing that apparently is not possible is to "freeze" door signs, direction markers and the many (tiny) sickbay changes (including all the variations between Season Two and Three) permanently for certain sections.

Bob
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