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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

View Poll Results: How do you rate 7x06 "The Bells of St John"?
Poor 2 1.43%
Okay 18 12.86%
Good 21 15.00%
Great 39 27.86%
Outstanding 42 30.00%
Geronimo!! 18 12.86%
Voters: 140. You may not vote on this poll

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Old April 1 2013, 01:36 AM   #136
DalekJim
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Re: 7x06 The Bells of St John - review/ discussion

TemporalFlux wrote: View Post
^If that's the case, then I believe they spent lots of money for something that looked and felt like what RTD did for much less. As a producer of "The Bells of St. John", I would find that pretty embarrassing. It's the definition of waste.
Russell T. Davies would open a series with gawdy, tacky cack like New Earth. A story which (Forgetting the toilet paper of a script!), is horrible for wasting a ton of money on a landscape shot of a futuristic city for no reason other than trailer time. The Doctor stares at it and then says "But actually, I'd rather go somewhere else!", before the action of the episode takes place entirely in a garish white hospital.

That, is the definition of waste. Doctor Who from 2006-2009 has aged atrociously.
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Old April 1 2013, 01:45 AM   #137
Allyn Gibson
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Re: 7x06 The Bells of St John - review/ discussion

TemporalFlux wrote: View Post
Comments up thread hit on why this episode felt a little "off" to me; this was very much a series one RTD episode. I wonder if the cause is budget. Series one did not have a large budget, and that contributed to its feel as much as RTD did.
I believe that series 1 had a larger budget than series 2. The difference, however, is that the cost of the console room set and TARDIS prop was spread across all 13 episodes of series 1, which was an expense that "The Christmas Invasion" onward didn't have. Series 5 likewise had a console room set and TARDIS prop spread across all 13 episodes. And now series 7 has the cost of another console room to spread across the episodes. (The question would be, is the cost spread across all 14 episodes, or just the last nine? It depends on the point at which the production realized they were going to need to build a new console room because the old one wasn't moveable.)

TemporalFlux wrote: View Post
Doctor Who has been blowing through a good bit of money lately (the most noticeable being the second major TARDIS overhaul since Moffat took over). "The Bells of St. John" was a low budget episode; the question is how many more low budget eps we'll see in order to cover the spending gap.
When Moffat's episodes feel low budget, it's that they seem to function with smaller guest casts. I'm not sure that Moffat's work always works with the smaller casts; the last third of "Let's Kill Hitler" is particularly egregious in that regard. However, that would make sense; pare down the characters and extras in one episode so another episode can have more guest characters and/or background extras.

Modern Star Trek had its "bottle episodes." Doctor Who can't do that -- only one standing set -- but it can do guest-lite episodes. Makes sense.

DalekJim wrote: View Post
Doctor Who from 2006-2009 has aged atrociously.
Largely agreed. RTD's Who was very much of the moment, and its pop culture references haven't aged particular well, like the Anne-droid.
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Old April 1 2013, 02:01 AM   #138
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Re: 7x06 The Bells of St John - review/ discussion

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
Modern Star Trek had its "bottle episodes." Doctor Who can't do that -- only one standing set -- but it can do guest-lite episodes. Makes sense.
The Girl Who Waited is basically the closest thing to a bottle episode Doctor Who can do. There's like what, two guest stars, both of them voice actors? Even that had more money spilled on it than Trek's bottle episodes.
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Old April 1 2013, 03:00 AM   #139
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Re: 7x06 The Bells of St John - review/ discussion

I would actually be interested in seeing a true Doctor Who bottle episode, one that takes place entirely in the control room. Imagine how claustrophobic that would feel.
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Old April 1 2013, 03:06 AM   #140
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Re: 7x06 The Bells of St John - review/ discussion

"Midnight" was very close to a traditional bottle episode. Only two sets, limited VFX work. Just a dozen or so actors in a small room for the bulk of the runtime.
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Old April 1 2013, 03:09 AM   #141
RoJoHen
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Re: 7x06 The Bells of St John - review/ discussion

Gep Malakai wrote: View Post
"Midnight" was very close to a traditional bottle episode. Only two sets, limited VFX work. Just 8 actors in a small room for the bulk of the runtime.
Good call, but for me (and this is just me being nitpicky), a real bottle episode is one that uses pre-existing sets, and they are often some of my favorites. One that always stands out to me is TNG's "Disaster." Lots of stuff happening, but it's all on board the Enterprise.
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Old April 1 2013, 03:25 AM   #142
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Re: 7x06 The Bells of St John - review/ discussion

TemporalFlux wrote: View Post
^If that's the case, then I believe they spent lots of money for something that looked and felt like what RTD did for much less. As a producer of "The Bells of St. John", I would find that pretty embarrassing. It's the definition of waste.
Maybe there weren't a ton of big effects sequences, but the episode still looked MUCH more stylish and expensive than anything in the RTD era.

Especially in the outdoor scenes, where it looked more like an episode of Sherlock, or one of the sleek and modern looking Bourne movies.
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Old April 1 2013, 03:40 AM   #143
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Re: 7x06 The Bells of St John - review/ discussion

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
I would actually be interested in seeing a true Doctor Who bottle episode, one that takes place entirely in the control room. Imagine how claustrophobic that would feel.
The third Doctor Who serial ever was that.
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Old April 1 2013, 03:49 AM   #144
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Re: 7x06 The Bells of St John - review/ discussion

Awesome Possum wrote: View Post
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Okies. My own question from a couple pages back... There's a St John's Ambulance sticker/poster on the front of the TARDIS... Were the "bells" the TARDIS making noise that it was time for the Doctor to get up off his ass?
It was the phone ringing on the Tardis.
Reminded me of Eccleston's "how can you be ringing?"

I guess he just wired it up to the inside "phone line".
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Old April 1 2013, 04:00 AM   #145
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Re: 7x06 The Bells of St John - review/ discussion

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
I would actually be interested in seeing a true Doctor Who bottle episode, one that takes place entirely in the control room. Imagine how claustrophobic that would feel.
Try the first Doctor's story Edge Of Destruction.
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Old April 1 2013, 04:24 AM   #146
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Re: 7x06 The Bells of St John - review/ discussion

ThankQ wrote: View Post
DalekJim wrote: View Post
This was the ep that cemented Matt Smith as my favourite Doctor since McCoy. Eccleston and Tennant were intentionally less eccentric, less alien and more accessible for The Saturda
I thought about this too while watching this episode. I thought back to Tom Baker saying he would do things that were decidedly un-human since the character is an alien. Smith made me think that with little things he does, tasting the leaf, reacting with disgust at the idea of snogging someone everyone alive would snog, and various other little "alien" actions.
All of that would've been fine and worked better if it were the 3rd Doctor. But the 3rd wasn't befuddled by any of this stuff when he started living on Earth. He wasn't confused about human's, jobs, money, women or courting women. Why should he be? He'd already had at least one child of his own.

So watching 11 mentally revert to someone who act's like they've just arrived on Earth is somewhat annoying at times. Thankfully Smith has the talent to make it bearable, if not funny. However, after interacting with humans for roughly 600 years, and given that 3 wasn't as confused, then the older 11 shouldn't be stumped by a single thing in the area of "humans".
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Old April 1 2013, 04:39 AM   #147
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Re: 7x06 The Bells of St John - review/ discussion

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
Gep Malakai wrote: View Post
"Midnight" was very close to a traditional bottle episode. Only two sets, limited VFX work. Just 8 actors in a small room for the bulk of the runtime.
Good call, but for me (and this is just me being nitpicky), a real bottle episode is one that uses pre-existing sets, and they are often some of my favorites. One that always stands out to me is TNG's "Disaster." Lots of stuff happening, but it's all on board the Enterprise.
It helps when you have more than one room for a set.
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Old April 1 2013, 04:39 AM   #148
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Re: 7x06 The Bells of St John - review/ discussion

The Lensman wrote: View Post
ThankQ wrote: View Post
DalekJim wrote: View Post
This was the ep that cemented Matt Smith as my favourite Doctor since McCoy. Eccleston and Tennant were intentionally less eccentric, less alien and more accessible for The Saturda
I thought about this too while watching this episode. I thought back to Tom Baker saying he would do things that were decidedly un-human since the character is an alien. Smith made me think that with little things he does, tasting the leaf, reacting with disgust at the idea of snogging someone everyone alive would snog, and various other little "alien" actions.
All of that would've been fine and worked better if it were the 3rd Doctor. But the 3rd wasn't befuddled by any of this stuff when he started living on Earth. He wasn't confused about human's, jobs, money, women or courting women. Why should he be? He'd already had at least one child of his own.

So watching 11 mentally revert to someone who act's like they've just arrived on Earth is somewhat annoying at times. Thankfully Smith has the talent to make it bearable, if not funny. However, after interacting with humans for roughly 600 years, and given that 3 wasn't as confused, then the older 11 shouldn't be stumped by a single thing in the area of "humans".
He does seem to have spent a lot of time alone, he could have gone a bit odd over the years.
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Old April 1 2013, 04:43 AM   #149
RoJoHen
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Re: 7x06 The Bells of St John - review/ discussion

Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
RoJoHen wrote: View Post
Gep Malakai wrote: View Post
"Midnight" was very close to a traditional bottle episode. Only two sets, limited VFX work. Just 8 actors in a small room for the bulk of the runtime.
Good call, but for me (and this is just me being nitpicky), a real bottle episode is one that uses pre-existing sets, and they are often some of my favorites. One that always stands out to me is TNG's "Disaster." Lots of stuff happening, but it's all on board the Enterprise.
It helps when you have more than one room for a set.
Sure, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to do with just one room.
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Old April 1 2013, 04:56 AM   #150
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Re: 7x06 The Bells of St John - review/ discussion

Awesome Possum wrote: View Post
Ghost Bones wrote: View Post
ThankQ wrote: View Post

I'm not a Star Wars guy, so I'll assume that's why I'm not making the connection
They're the same character is what I'm saying.
You must not be truly aware of either then, they really don't have much in common.
They both blubber around like twits and make me a bit ashamed to call myself a fan of either franchise.
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