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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old March 30 2013, 05:02 AM   #31
GalaxyX
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Re: My Review of Insurrection

Hmm, well since several movies are being mentioned here I'll chip in with MO.

In general, TNG movies were severely hurt by Paramount's complete lack of faith in TNG being a successful movie franchise, and therefore only providing shoestring budgets for the TNG films. (Fuck you Paramount! ) But they did have faith in the JJ reboot and forked over the cash for that one, and look how it turned out (singlehandedly resurrecting the Star Trek name, albeit as a different being to the original).

Money problems aside though, IMO the biggest problems with Insurrection are the following:

1. The whole story is booooooooring! The premise is that Picard and crew are rebelling against the Federation to save people that need their help. This severely falls flat on its face when we find out that these people not only *don't* need to be saved, but also don't *want* to be saved. They come across as arrogant assholes who are not worthy of the sacrifice the Enterprise crew is making for them.

So this causes the problem that you don't care about their plight, and you don't care if Picard and crew are successful in their quest, so the whole thing is dreadfully boring to watch, because you as the viewer are not engaged in the story at all.

It doesn't help that due to the shoe string budget, all they can do for 70% of the movie is run across California hills and cave sets.

2. The lameness of the jokes. I have no idea who's idea was it to write boob and zit jokes and actually think they are funny. Didn't they have test audiences to gauge the reactions? I have to say they probably didn't, and thought their shit didn't stink.

3. Gimmicks like the joystick. Shit that was a cringe inducing moment. What were they thinking?

A typical audience would think of this movie as simply mediocre, and nothing special at all.
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Old March 30 2013, 06:54 AM   #32
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Re: My Review of Insurrection

The only saving grace of this movie is Jerry Goldsmith's music.
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Old March 30 2013, 10:32 AM   #33
BillJ
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Re: My Review of Insurrection

Chrisisall wrote: View Post
Lance wrote: View Post
How the movie's reputation managed to go from that to being "one of the worst movies in the entire franchise" is something of a mystery.
It wasn't 'epic', therefore it ends up on the crap list. Just 'good' is good enough no more it seems.
Lack of being 'epic' had nothing to do with why I dislike the movie. I've always said the tag line for the film should be "Yuppies battle eminent domain!"

Picard's "smug" factor is set on thirteen on a scale of one to ten. We have him using women and children as human shields. The pretty white people are the downtrodden and those who aren't so pretty are "evil" including Dougherty.

From my perspective, Insurrection is the most shallow entry of the movie series and makes "message" episodes like "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" look subtle in comparison. YMMV.
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Old March 30 2013, 01:41 PM   #34
Chrisisall
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Re: My Review of Insurrection

BillJ wrote: View Post
Picard's "smug" factor is set on thirteen on a scale of one to ten. We have him using women and children as human shields. The pretty white people are the downtrodden and those who aren't so pretty are "evil" including Dougherty.

From my perspective, Insurrection is the most shallow entry of the movie series and makes "message" episodes like "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" look subtle in comparison. YMMV.
You present a good argument from that POV. But I don't have that POV myself.
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Old March 30 2013, 01:59 PM   #35
BillJ
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Re: My Review of Insurrection

Chrisisall wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Picard's "smug" factor is set on thirteen on a scale of one to ten. We have him using women and children as human shields. The pretty white people are the downtrodden and those who aren't so pretty are "evil" including Dougherty.

From my perspective, Insurrection is the most shallow entry of the movie series and makes "message" episodes like "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" look subtle in comparison. YMMV.
You present a good argument from that POV. But I don't have that POV myself.
IDIC and all that.
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Old March 30 2013, 02:09 PM   #36
Chrisisall
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Re: My Review of Insurrection

BillJ wrote: View Post
IDIC and all that.
Thank you sir.

Generations is really the only Trek movie I find unwatchable.
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Old March 30 2013, 02:13 PM   #37
Lance
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Re: My Review of Insurrection

GalaxyX wrote:
In general, TNG movies were severely hurt by Paramount's complete lack of faith in TNG being a successful movie franchise, and therefore only providing shoestring budgets for the TNG films. (Fuck you Paramount! ) But they did have faith in the JJ reboot and forked over the cash for that one, and look how it turned out (singlehandedly resurrecting the Star Trek name, albeit as a different being to the original).
To be completely fair, they didn't spend any less on TNG than they did on TOS did they? All the Trek movies between 1982 and 2002 were done on a (relative) shoestring. Paramount always seemed to see Trek as an easy sell. Spend less $$$, make more $$$. Abrams Trek was arguably the first movie that was truly given the budget that the franchise deserved all along.

Chrisisall wrote:
Lance wrote:
How the movie's reputation managed to go from that to being "one of the worst movies in the entire franchise" is something of a mystery.
It wasn't 'epic', therefore it ends up on the crap list. Just 'good' is good enough no more it seems.
That being said, the irony is that Insurrection is epic on the surface. It's got the most location shooting of any Trek movie save the 1986 set Trek IV, with masses of extras on site, etc. But despite the evident expense of all those big scale lake shots etc (can't have been cheap!), the final movie still ends up looking like the purse strings have been sewn shut compared to the mostly studio-bound First Contact. That's even more baffling. It appears to have been a more expensive movie, but it just feels cheaper. I blame that on the script. Insurrection just hasn't got the ambition of First Contact, and no amount of money being thrown at the production could change that.
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Old March 30 2013, 02:18 PM   #38
BillJ
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Re: My Review of Insurrection

Chrisisall wrote: View Post

Generations is really the only Trek movie I find unwatchable.
It has its moments but falls apart when Picard enters the Nexus.
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Old March 30 2013, 02:23 PM   #39
Chrisisall
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Re: My Review of Insurrection

BillJ wrote: View Post
Chrisisall wrote: View Post

Generations is really the only Trek movie I find unwatchable.
It has its moments but falls apart when Picard enters the Nexus.
Quite.
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Old March 30 2013, 02:26 PM   #40
Lance
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Re: My Review of Insurrection

BillJ wrote: View Post
Chrisisall wrote: View Post

Generations is really the only Trek movie I find unwatchable.
It has its moments but falls apart when Picard enters the Nexus.
The trouble with Generations is the Nexus, but more particularly that the entire plot hangs on it. We're constantly told that it's this wonderful realm that nobody ever wants to leave, but because Picard doesn't enter it until the final act we get a very rushed view of it. Jean Luc ends up leaving far too easily because, hey, the plot requires him to see through the facade and then convice Kirk to do the same. What that movie really needed was to have thrown Picard into the Nexus far earlier. They should have shown more of Picard being genuinely seduced by the fantasy lifestyle of having a wife and kids, but only gradually coming to realise how superficial and fake it all is. They could even have gone the whole hog on the It's A Wonderful Life thing with somebody (the Guinnan echo?) convincing him that he needs to leave because his absence from reality makes such a difference, maybe show him flashes of how real life gets affected by him not being there. Instead, it just seems to be seeing those fancy Christmas decorations blowing up which snaps him out of it. Which happens, like, thirty seconds after he enters the Nexus, and only then because the plot demands it. As a concept the Nexus has got potential, but that movie just blows it all.
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Old March 30 2013, 04:23 PM   #41
sonak
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Re: My Review of Insurrection

GalaxyX wrote: View Post
Hmm, well since several movies are being mentioned here I'll chip in with MO.

In general, TNG movies were severely hurt by Paramount's complete lack of faith in TNG being a successful movie franchise, and therefore only providing shoestring budgets for the TNG films. (Fuck you Paramount! ) But they did have faith in the JJ reboot and forked over the cash for that one, and look how it turned out (singlehandedly resurrecting the Star Trek name, albeit as a different being to the original).

Money problems aside though, IMO the biggest problems with Insurrection are the following:

1. The whole story is booooooooring! The premise is that Picard and crew are rebelling against the Federation to save people that need their help. This severely falls flat on its face when we find out that these people not only *don't* need to be saved, but also don't *want* to be saved. They come across as arrogant assholes who are not worthy of the sacrifice the Enterprise crew is making for them.

So this causes the problem that you don't care about their plight, and you don't care if Picard and crew are successful in their quest, so the whole thing is dreadfully boring to watch, because you as the viewer are not engaged in the story at all.

It doesn't help that due to the shoe string budget, all they can do for 70% of the movie is run across California hills and cave sets.

2. The lameness of the jokes. I have no idea who's idea was it to write boob and zit jokes and actually think they are funny. Didn't they have test audiences to gauge the reactions? I have to say they probably didn't, and thought their shit didn't stink.

3. Gimmicks like the joystick. Shit that was a cringe inducing moment. What were they thinking?

A typical audience would think of this movie as simply mediocre, and nothing special at all.
BillJ wrote: View Post
Chrisisall wrote: View Post
Lance wrote: View Post
How the movie's reputation managed to go from that to being "one of the worst movies in the entire franchise" is something of a mystery.
It wasn't 'epic', therefore it ends up on the crap list. Just 'good' is good enough no more it seems.
Lack of being 'epic' had nothing to do with why I dislike the movie. I've always said the tag line for the film should be "Yuppies battle eminent domain!"

Picard's "smug" factor is set on thirteen on a scale of one to ten. We have him using women and children as human shields. The pretty white people are the downtrodden and those who aren't so pretty are "evil" including Dougherty.

From my perspective, Insurrection is the most shallow entry of the movie series and makes "message" episodes like "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" look subtle in comparison. YMMV.

thumbs up to both of these
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Old April 1 2013, 12:49 AM   #42
T'Girl
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Re: My Review of Insurrection

Chrisisall wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Chrisisall wrote: View Post

Generations is really the only Trek movie I find unwatchable.
It has its moments but falls apart when Picard enters the Nexus.
Quite.
I think more so when Picard exits the Nexus. When he appeared back in reality.

He could have "arrived" on the planet prior to Soren aboard the bird of prey, disabled/destroyed the missile at his leisure. This also would have (unbeknownst to Picard) saved Kirk's life.

Arrived aboard the Enterprise as Soren beamed over from the observatory, had a security team escort Soren to sickbay, then the brig.

Arrived back prior to the time of the fire that killed his brother and nephew, communicated to preventing their deaths and prevented the Romulan attack upon the observatory saving the life's there and prevented the destruction of that star (and the observatory) and captured Soren too.

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Old April 1 2013, 12:53 AM   #43
Chrisisall
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Re: My Review of Insurrection

T'Girl wrote: View Post
He could have left at such a time as to "arrive" on the planet prior to Soren, disabled/destroyed the missile at his leisure. This also would have (unbeknownst to Picard) saved Kirk's life.

Arrived aboard the Enterprise as the survivors from the observatory were coming aboard, had a security team escort Soren to the brig.

Arrived back prior to the time of the fire that killed his brother and nephew, communicated to preventing their deaths and captured Soren too.

SO many problems with that infernal movie.
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Old April 1 2013, 04:09 AM   #44
sonak
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Re: My Review of Insurrection

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Chrisisall wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post

It has its moments but falls apart when Picard enters the Nexus.
Quite.
I think more so when Picard exits the Nexus. When he appeared back in reality.

He could have "arrived" on the planet prior to Soren aboard the bird of prey, disabled/destroyed the missile at his leisure. This also would have (unbeknownst to Picard) saved Kirk's life.

Arrived aboard the Enterprise as Soren beamed over from the observatory, had a security team escort Soren to sickbay, then the brig.

Arrived back prior to the time of the fire that killed his brother and nephew, communicated to preventing their deaths and prevented the Romulan attack upon the observatory saving the life's there and prevented the destruction of that star (and the observatory) and captured Soren too.


having Picard walk into Ten-Forward and arrest Soran would have made a boring end to the movie. It's "rule of drama" people. Why didn't the Borg in FC travel back in time while in the Delta Quadrant and THEN try to assimilate Earth when there'd be no advanced opposition?


And yet somehow, fans forgive FC for that, yet they endlessly harp on GEN for doing the same thing.
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Old April 1 2013, 07:11 PM   #45
Marsden
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Re: My Review of Insurrection

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Chrisisall wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post

It has its moments but falls apart when Picard enters the Nexus.
Quite.
I think more so when Picard exits the Nexus. When he appeared back in reality.

He could have "arrived" on the planet prior to Soren aboard the bird of prey, disabled/destroyed the missile at his leisure. This also would have (unbeknownst to Picard) saved Kirk's life.

Arrived aboard the Enterprise as Soren beamed over from the observatory, had a security team escort Soren to sickbay, then the brig.

Arrived back prior to the time of the fire that killed his brother and nephew, communicated to preventing their deaths and prevented the Romulan attack upon the observatory saving the life's there and prevented the destruction of that star (and the observatory) and captured Soren too.


I like the theory the Picard never left the Nexus because he got what he wanted most, Kirk is dead.
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