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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old March 18 2013, 06:50 PM   #31
Gaith
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Re: "A Few weeks latter they found a cure, a god damned cure!"Contrive

Argus Skyhawk wrote: View Post
Gaith wrote: View Post
Anyone know the name of the first American sentenced to death row who was exonerated by DNA fingerprinting?

Kirk Noble Bloodsworth. His blood proved his (noble) worth. Not kidding.

Reality itself can seem highly contrived at times.
I've always felt similarly about the fact that a legendarily famous writer was named William Wordsworth. There is also the fact that the court case that legalized interracial marriage in all states was Loving vs Virginia. Cause, ya know, Virginia was against interracial loving.
And don't forget reality's epic bout of naming laziness, Brown vs. Board of Education!
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Old March 19 2013, 02:20 AM   #32
Tiberius
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Re: "A Few weeks latter they found a cure, a god damned cure!"Contrive

J. Allen wrote: View Post
Some of you guys are trying to find a technological answer to an emotional problem. The scene isn't specifically about the cure they found later ('weeks' is never mentioned). That they found the cure not too much later (again, 'weeks' is never mentioned) is only meant to be the final nail in the coffin to McCoy's burning guilt about his father.

He could have said months, he could have said years, but he didn't, because the length of time is only secondary to the actual emotional cost that they did find a cure, and McCoy's survivor's guilt, doubly compounded by the fact that he was not only a doctor, but his son.

So you have a bright, young doctor, and his ailing parent. Doing everything he can to keep his father alive, desperately, and his father is so tired, so exhausted from all of the pain, from all of the life extending treatments that aren't working, he reaches out to his son, who is his doctor, the only one who can release him from the pain, the one he trusts to do this, and his son is conflicted, yet because he loves his father, because he doesn't want to see him in pain, and because there has been no word of a cure, he agrees.

Then, some time later, a cure is found.

That is the crux of the whole scene. How long it takes doesn't matter so much beyond the fact that it wasn't "too long after", which is nicely vague enough to make the impact of what happened, while not tying down too many details.

In short, you're asking the wrong question.
I agree. I think that scene would have had even more impact if McCoy had been despairing that he should have been the one to find the cure, that he hadn't been looking hard enough.
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Old March 19 2013, 02:22 AM   #33
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Re: "A Few weeks latter they found a cure, a god damned cure!"Contrive

solariabsg25 wrote: View Post
It's not really contrived, as sudden medical breakthroughs can happen. In Trek it could be even more common, as some flora on that newly explored world of Omicron IV just happens to have medical properties unfound elsewhere.
It depends what you mean by "sudden". If you mean a few years, then yes. But it could never happen in a few months. Even if they find some plant that cures everything, there's still going to be tests to isolate the active ingredient, trials to determine exactly what it does, seeking approval from the FDA and what have you. It's just not a fast process.
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Old March 19 2013, 03:40 AM   #34
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Re: "A Few weeks latter they found a cure, a god damned cure!"Contrive

WesleysDisciple wrote: View Post
Anyone else feel the fact that a cure was found a FEW WEEKS LATTER for the disease McCoy's father had, seems like its something that exists simply to remove moral ambiguity from the situation...
That's exactly what it is, yes.

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Hear about the research? Wouldn't McCoy have been participating in the research, if not leading it himself?
Y-e-a-h... Medical research doesn't work that way. Sorry.
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Old March 19 2013, 08:45 PM   #35
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Re: "A Few weeks latter they found a cure, a god damned cure!"Contrive

dub wrote: View Post
That particular scene was quite gripping to me and I thought DeForest Kelley did an outstanding job with it. (Much better, by the way, than the Spock scene that followed -- how could that be one of Spock's painful memories? He was just born? )
Uhh...it wasn't about him being a baby.
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Old March 19 2013, 09:51 PM   #36
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Re: "A Few weeks latter they found a cure, a god damned cure!"Contrive

STR wrote: View Post
dub wrote: View Post
That particular scene was quite gripping to me and I thought DeForest Kelley did an outstanding job with it. (Much better, by the way, than the Spock scene that followed -- how could that be one of Spock's painful memories? He was just born? )
Uhh...it wasn't about him being a baby.

true, and the point of the scene was a good one, as was Spock's response to Sybok.

but it is ridiculous that Sybok could be pulling that scene out of Spock's memories, unless it's just supposed to be something he constructed out of his imagination.
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Old March 20 2013, 01:41 AM   #37
dub
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Re: "A Few weeks latter they found a cure, a god damned cure!"Contrive

STR wrote: View Post
dub wrote: View Post
That particular scene was quite gripping to me and I thought DeForest Kelley did an outstanding job with it. (Much better, by the way, than the Spock scene that followed -- how could that be one of Spock's painful memories? He was just born? )
Uhh...it wasn't about him being a baby.
I wasn't referring to what the scene was about...

sonak wrote: View Post
but it is ridiculous that Sybok could be pulling that scene out of Spock's memories
That was my point.
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Old March 20 2013, 02:23 AM   #38
sonak
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Re: "A Few weeks latter they found a cure, a god damned cure!"Contrive

dub wrote: View Post
STR wrote: View Post
dub wrote: View Post
That particular scene was quite gripping to me and I thought DeForest Kelley did an outstanding job with it. (Much better, by the way, than the Spock scene that followed -- how could that be one of Spock's painful memories? He was just born? )
Uhh...it wasn't about him being a baby.
I wasn't referring to what the scene was about...

sonak wrote: View Post
but it is ridiculous that Sybok could be pulling that scene out of Spock's memories
That was my point.

it's that Vulcan mental discipline! They have fully formed and coherent memories from the moment of their birth!
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Old March 27 2013, 08:04 AM   #39
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Re: "A Few weeks latter they found a cure, a god damned cure!"Contrive

sonak wrote: View Post
but it is ridiculous that Sybok could be pulling that scene out of Spock's memories, unless it's just supposed to be something he constructed out of his imagination.
Since Sybok is the older sibling, perhaps he sent Spock a telepathic memory of Sybok actually witnessing his little half-brother's birth?
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Old March 27 2013, 02:22 PM   #40
Tiberius
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Re: "A Few weeks latter they found a cure, a god damned cure!"Contrive

Maybe a mind meld with someone who was there? (But not his father. They never melded, after all...)
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Old March 27 2013, 05:05 PM   #41
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Re: "A Few weeks latter they found a cure, a god damned cure!"Contrive

A scene with Spock as a child witnessing a similar statement from his father would have been a bit better, IMO.
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Old March 31 2013, 05:46 AM   #42
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Re: "A Few weeks latter they found a cure, a god damned cure!"Contrive

J. Allen wrote: View Post
Some of you guys are trying to find a technological answer to an emotional problem. The scene isn't specifically about the cure they found later ('weeks' is never mentioned). That they found the cure not too much later (again, 'weeks' is never mentioned) is only meant to be the final nail in the coffin to McCoy's burning guilt about his father.

He could have said months, he could have said years, but he didn't, because the length of time is only secondary to the actual emotional cost that they did find a cure, and McCoy's survivor's guilt, doubly compounded by the fact that he was not only a doctor, but his son.

So you have a bright, young doctor, and his ailing parent. Doing everything he can to keep his father alive, desperately, and his father is so tired, so exhausted from all of the pain, from all of the life extending treatments that aren't working, he reaches out to his son, who is his doctor, the only one who can release him from the pain, the one he trusts to do this, and his son is conflicted, yet because he loves his father, because he doesn't want to see him in pain, and because there has been no word of a cure, he agrees.

Then, some time later, a cure is found.

That is the crux of the whole scene. How long it takes doesn't matter so much beyond the fact that it wasn't "too long after", which is nicely vague enough to make the impact of what happened, while not tying down too many details.

In short, you're asking the wrong question.
I couldn't have said it better myself. This, by far, is my favorite scene in TFF, and unlike a lot of people here, I actually like the movie and enjoy watching it from time to time.

If we wanted a technical answer, I actually agree with one of the above posters in the fact that most treatments takes years or decades because of political walls (requiring approval from government agencies like the FDA, etc etc.). I highly doubt Starfleet Medical has such obstructions. I'm sure if they find effective treatments for a disease, such a treatment could go from discovery to application in a matter of weeks or months.

I could see McCoy having to deal with the fact that after his father dies, maybe a month or 2 later Starfleet Medical comes up with an effective cure for the disease, even if it was just the discovery of it. I'm sure that would tear him up emotionally, and that's what makes it the best scene of the movie IMO.
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Old March 31 2013, 08:22 PM   #43
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Re: "A Few weeks latter they found a cure, a god damned cure!"Contrive

LOKAI of CHERON wrote: View Post
bbailey861 wrote: View Post
No, I don't find it contrived. I find it the reason that Bones was so filled with guilt. It worked well for me.
Agreed. This segment, along with the camping scenes, is one of the highlights in the movie.
Great points. The McCoy scene was one of the highlights of the TOS films series. DK scored with that one.
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Old March 31 2013, 08:24 PM   #44
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Re: "A Few weeks latter they found a cure, a god damned cure!"Contrive

J. Allen wrote: View Post
Some of you guys are trying to find a technological answer to an emotional problem. The scene isn't specifically about the cure they found later ('weeks' is never mentioned). That they found the cure not too much later (again, 'weeks' is never mentioned) is only meant to be the final nail in the coffin to McCoy's burning guilt about his father.

He could have said months, he could have said years, but he didn't, because the length of time is only secondary to the actual emotional cost that they did find a cure, and McCoy's survivor's guilt, doubly compounded by the fact that he was not only a doctor, but his son.

So you have a bright, young doctor, and his ailing parent. Doing everything he can to keep his father alive, desperately, and his father is so tired, so exhausted from all of the pain, from all of the life extending treatments that aren't working, he reaches out to his son, who is his doctor, the only one who can release him from the pain, the one he trusts to do this, and his son is conflicted, yet because he loves his father, because he doesn't want to see him in pain, and because there has been no word of a cure, he agrees.

Then, some time later, a cure is found.

That is the crux of the whole scene. How long it takes doesn't matter so much beyond the fact that it wasn't "too long after", which is nicely vague enough to make the impact of what happened, while not tying down too many details.

In short, you're asking the wrong question.
Well said.
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