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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old March 31 2013, 05:40 PM   #16
Dale Sams
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Re: Was Sisko a Javert

lurok wrote: View Post
No. But a better singer than Crowe.
I thought he was fine. He was consistant and didn't have that nasty warble whaisname had.

As for the OP....I was always under the impression that the whole situation with Cassidy influenced his feelings towards Eddington. Sisko can't/won't make Yates pay, but he sure can make Eddington pay.
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Old March 31 2013, 05:43 PM   #17
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Re: Was Sisko a Javert

R. Star wrote: View Post
JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
Sisko did take Eddington's betrayal too personally and as a bruise to his ego but I don't think he stepped over the line. And Eddington's delusions of picaresque grandeur were really just as bad and way more creepy.

Let's also remember that nobody died when Sisko gassed the planet, and he was completely sure Eddington would continue to do it to Cardassian planets.
You honestly think that a planet with thousands, if not millions of people, can be evacuated by a terrorist group that doesn't even have enough ships to fight their enemies in an open battle in the window of an hour? We couldn't even evacuate New Orleans with a week's foreknowledge of Katrina.
I was under the impression that Sisko destroyed the biosphere, rendering the planet uninhabitable. He didn't introduce anything directly lethal to the colonists.

Also, they have a bit more resources than 'we' do, and finally, N.O. could have been evacuated with the proper application of resources.
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Old March 31 2013, 05:53 PM   #18
R. Star
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Re: Was Sisko a Javert

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
Sisko did take Eddington's betrayal too personally and as a bruise to his ego but I don't think he stepped over the line. And Eddington's delusions of picaresque grandeur were really just as bad and way more creepy.

Let's also remember that nobody died when Sisko gassed the planet, and he was completely sure Eddington would continue to do it to Cardassian planets.
You honestly think that a planet with thousands, if not millions of people, can be evacuated by a terrorist group that doesn't even have enough ships to fight their enemies in an open battle in the window of an hour? We couldn't even evacuate New Orleans with a week's foreknowledge of Katrina.
I was under the impression that Sisko destroyed the biosphere, rendering the planet uninhabitable. He didn't introduce anything directly lethal to the colonists.

Also, they have a bit more resources than 'we' do, and finally, N.O. could have been evacuated with the proper application of resources.
He released trilitium resin into the atmosphere. It's a waste product produced by warp engines. In Starship Mine the bad guys tried to steal some from the E-D, and it was commented more than once they had to be careful with it or they would "be dead before they know it" and tampering with the container blew up the terrorist chick's ship. It's also the same crap that was in those uber warheads Janeway used to destroy the Caretaker's array. That stuff's lethal.
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Old March 31 2013, 06:02 PM   #19
Hartzilla2007
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Re: Was Sisko a Javert

R. Star wrote: View Post
Dale Sams wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post

You honestly think that a planet with thousands, if not millions of people, can be evacuated by a terrorist group that doesn't even have enough ships to fight their enemies in an open battle in the window of an hour? We couldn't even evacuate New Orleans with a week's foreknowledge of Katrina.
I was under the impression that Sisko destroyed the biosphere, rendering the planet uninhabitable. He didn't introduce anything directly lethal to the colonists.

Also, they have a bit more resources than 'we' do, and finally, N.O. could have been evacuated with the proper application of resources.
He released trilitium resin into the atmosphere. It's a waste product produced by warp engines. In Starship Mine the bad guys tried to steal some from the E-D, and it was commented more than once they had to be careful with it or they would "be dead before they know it" and tampering with the container blew up the terrorist chick's ship. It's also the same crap that was in those uber warheads Janeway used to destroy the Caretaker's array. That stuff's lethal.
As a high yield explosive its deadly, as something that can be breathed in I'm not so sure.
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Old March 31 2013, 06:25 PM   #20
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Re: Was Sisko a Javert

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
Dale Sams wrote: View Post

I was under the impression that Sisko destroyed the biosphere, rendering the planet uninhabitable. He didn't introduce anything directly lethal to the colonists.

Also, they have a bit more resources than 'we' do, and finally, N.O. could have been evacuated with the proper application of resources.
He released trilitium resin into the atmosphere. It's a waste product produced by warp engines. In Starship Mine the bad guys tried to steal some from the E-D, and it was commented more than once they had to be careful with it or they would "be dead before they know it" and tampering with the container blew up the terrorist chick's ship. It's also the same crap that was in those uber warheads Janeway used to destroy the Caretaker's array. That stuff's lethal.
As a high yield explosive its deadly, as something that can be breathed in I'm not so sure.
It's good enough to destroy the biosphere of an entire planet. I don't claim to be a technobabble biology expert, but I'm fairly sure anything that kills an ecosystem in an hour probably going to kill people too. Otherwise why was Eddington so POed and why were the scrambling what ships they had instantly?
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Old March 31 2013, 08:10 PM   #21
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Re: Was Sisko a Javert

No, it wasn't supposed to destroy the biosphere or the ecosystem. It was supposed to kill humans, while leaving the planet habitable for other humanoid species, explicitly including Cardassians.

I used to think that evacuation would have been flat out impossible, too. But Sisko gives the locals fair warning of what he's going to do, supposedly "less than an hour" in advance. And lack of ships need not be any sort of a problem: these people arrived here on ships, fairly recently at that (in the aftermath of the old war with Cardassia, supposedly, and that one was still going on in the early 2360s) and we never were told that they would have merely hired the transportation.

As for the population of Solosos III, it certainly didn't number in millions or even hundreds of thousands. After all, Eddington says that only Sisko's intent to escalate his campaign to cover all Maquis worlds would make "hundreds of thousands" homeless. That gives an average population of mere thousands for the supposedly hundreds of worlds in the disputed areas, and jibes well with what we saw of DMZ worlds before this.

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Old March 31 2013, 08:20 PM   #22
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Re: Was Sisko a Javert

I must be conflating ("The Chase" I think) where the Enterprise happens upon some Klingons (?) wiping out all the plants (??) on a planet. All I remember is a graphic showing everything turning brown.
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Old April 1 2013, 03:16 AM   #23
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Re: Was Sisko a Javert

Also, Sisko only fired two torpedoes, and fairly close together too, exploded into the upper atmosphere. That would take days, at least, to affect the whole planet (the way the green stuff spread was completely weird). Sure, he might have dropped them right on top of the colony, but it would still take time to fall. Scanners indicated that transports were scrambling after the attack; they obviously had some time to prepare (I'd bet that they were always on a short notice for evacuation, in case of Cardassian attack).
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Old April 1 2013, 04:38 AM   #24
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Re: Was Sisko a Javert

R. Star wrote: View Post
Dale Sams wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post

You honestly think that a planet with thousands, if not millions of people, can be evacuated by a terrorist group that doesn't even have enough ships to fight their enemies in an open battle in the window of an hour? We couldn't even evacuate New Orleans with a week's foreknowledge of Katrina.
I was under the impression that Sisko destroyed the biosphere, rendering the planet uninhabitable. He didn't introduce anything directly lethal to the colonists.

Also, they have a bit more resources than 'we' do, and finally, N.O. could have been evacuated with the proper application of resources.
He released trilitium resin into the atmosphere. It's a waste product produced by warp engines. In Starship Mine the bad guys tried to steal some from the E-D, and it was commented more than once they had to be careful with it or they would "be dead before they know it" and tampering with the container blew up the terrorist chick's ship. It's also the same crap that was in those uber warheads Janeway used to destroy the Caretaker's array. That stuff's lethal.
Slight nitpick: Janeway used tricobalt devices to destroy the Caretaker's array.
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Old April 1 2013, 04:49 AM   #25
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Re: Was Sisko a Javert

Jono wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
Dale Sams wrote: View Post

I was under the impression that Sisko destroyed the biosphere, rendering the planet uninhabitable. He didn't introduce anything directly lethal to the colonists.

Also, they have a bit more resources than 'we' do, and finally, N.O. could have been evacuated with the proper application of resources.
He released trilitium resin into the atmosphere. It's a waste product produced by warp engines. In Starship Mine the bad guys tried to steal some from the E-D, and it was commented more than once they had to be careful with it or they would "be dead before they know it" and tampering with the container blew up the terrorist chick's ship. It's also the same crap that was in those uber warheads Janeway used to destroy the Caretaker's array. That stuff's lethal.
Slight nitpick: Janeway used tricobalt devices to destroy the Caretaker's array.
Curse my inability to keep technobabble straight!
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Old April 1 2013, 09:28 AM   #26
Timo
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Re: Was Sisko a Javert

...It was Soran in ST:Generations who blew up entire stars with trilithium - and Riker and Worf needed to have a "cabbagehead" dialogue on the subject before coming to terms with the possibility that trilithium could achieve this. The weapons potential of the substance probably isn't obvious, considering the lack of countermeasures in "Starship Mine" and the seemingly slow pace at which Picard realizes what the intruders are after.

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Old April 2 2013, 09:49 AM   #27
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Re: Was Sisko a Javert

I'm pretty sure Changeling Bashir's bomb had trilithium as well.
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Old April 2 2013, 11:37 AM   #28
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Re: Was Sisko a Javert

...Plus protomatter and who-knows-what.

Dax: "Looks like someone's been doing some modifications to the Yukon. I'm also picking up large amounts of trilithium, tekasite, and protomatter on board."
Kira: "A bomb. If it explodes inside the sun- "
Dax: "It could trigger a supernova."
This of course assuming that there ever even was a bomb aboard. Or a Changeling. After all, the true tactical function of the seeming nova-bombing run in the end was to create a diversion so that the Dominion fleet could slip in through the jammed-open wormhole unchallenged. A smart Changeling would just send a decoy towards the Bajoran sun, transmitting the fake signatures of a potent bomb (easier to come by than an actual bomb) and, of course, a Changeling, while making a clean getaway and laughing at the Federation, Klingon and Romulan starships scrambling out of the way of the imagined explosion.

Doesn't change the fact that Dax and Kira seemed to think a cocktail of trilithium, tekasite and protomatter would cause a supernova explosion in a neat and tidy main sequence star.

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Old April 4 2013, 10:06 PM   #29
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Re: Was Sisko a Javert

TheRoyalFamily wrote: View Post
Also, Sisko only fired two torpedoes, and fairly close together too, exploded into the upper atmosphere. That would take days, at least, to affect the whole planet (the way the green stuff spread was completely weird). Sure, he might have dropped them right on top of the colony, but it would still take time to fall. Scanners indicated that transports were scrambling after the attack; they obviously had some time to prepare (I'd bet that they were always on a short notice for evacuation, in case of Cardassian attack).
Yeah I'd point out they probably had some ships around in case they needed to evacuate due to a Cardassian attack, but the way that the chemical was spreading was quite rapid, and if this was a developed colony, and not just concentrated refugee camp, it would be extremely difficult for the Maquis to have ships around any human settlement, from homesteads to cities.

More importantly, Sisko never actually scans the colony to make sure. He heads towards the nearly colony, gives the warning, scans to see if the Maquis react, and then fires. He never scans to make sure there are enough cargo ships to evacuate the planet, or that the ships on the planet are in range of all humans on the planet before the weapon kills them.

Considering how rapidly the Maquis colony started evacuating, I'm not sure if these weapons would take days to reach human settlements.
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Old April 4 2013, 11:18 PM   #30
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Re: Was Sisko a Javert

Yeah for them to take off within a minute, that's pretty much a statement "It's hitting the fan now, if you're close enough to a ship get on, otherwise sorry buddy."

Sure hope I wasn't out camping that day, or turned off my phone, just didn't live near a ship or something. I'm sure no one did that though.
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