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Old March 30 2013, 03:11 PM   #61
The Mirrorball Man
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Re: Star Trek Enterprise: The most "likable" cast?

teacake wrote: View Post
Or how about as Archer finishes that sentences with ".. being born" you can see Grizzled Mayweather in the background covering his mouth and apparently choking with laughter.
You know, I genuinely think that the series would have been better with such a grizzled curmudgeon character in it. I also think he would have become the most popular character in the show.
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Old March 30 2013, 08:39 PM   #62
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Re: Star Trek Enterprise: The most "likable" cast?

R. Star wrote: View Post
Well let's compare all five franchises in likability. Keep in mind this just my opinion and reflects personality over competence. ...
All opinions being equal, yours is an interesting list. My only real point-of-discussion would be regarding Mr. Spock as portrayed by Leonard Nimoy. I wouldn't be able to find anyone to trump his Mr. Spock in any catagory in which he found himself in.

One of the greatest of achiements in all of "Star Trek" history, as I see it, is Leonard Nimoy's unrivaled, top-notch work as Mr. Spock. If there was an MVP award to be given to the cast member who most went above-and-beyond the call of duty it would go to Nimoy.

From all the sources I've read and stories I've heard, Leonard Nimoy always questioned things from the standpoint of a dramatist. Things always viewed through the critical eye of motivation and dramatic integrity (as opposed to being solely concerned with line count). Leonard worked strove for quality and that translated to his magnificently skilled performance as Mr. Spock.

No other actor in all of Trekdom gave such a master-class study in bringing a depth of character and level of excellence to the art of pure acting. He came up with the nerve-pinch and Vulcan salute. His arching of the eye brow alone could speak volumes and communicate a wide variety of things depending on context.

As Spock he had to chart his own course in satisfying more distinct and various roles than any other (then or since). He had to internalize and balance the human and alien while performing the function of second-in-command, chief science officer, confident, friend. His TOS incarnation had to deal with more complexities and subtleties.

Leonard Nimoy was also old-school in terms of believing in the reality of his character and the world in which he lived. Modern era actors seem largely too self-conscious to go that far.

... but I gush.
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Old March 30 2013, 08:49 PM   #63
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Re: Star Trek Enterprise: The most "likable" cast?

The Mirrorball Man wrote: View Post
You know, I genuinely think that the series would have been better with such a grizzled curmudgeon character in it. I also think he would have become the most popular character in the show.
Not grizzled or curmudgeon per se but old-school hero. Six foot-four inches, square-jawed hero in the mold of mister John Wayne himself (may he rest-in-peace).

One reason why I don't blame Bakula quite so much as maybe I should is because I recall folks at the time saying how the direction chosen by the showrunners was to have the lead be more akin to an astronaut than a cowboy.
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Old March 31 2013, 12:09 AM   #64
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Re: Star Trek Enterprise: The most "likable" cast?

The Mirrorball Man wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
Or how about as Archer finishes that sentences with ".. being born" you can see Grizzled Mayweather in the background covering his mouth and apparently choking with laughter.
You know, I genuinely think that the series would have been better with such a grizzled curmudgeon character in it. I also think he would have become the most popular character in the show.
There hasn't been an actual sorta old person as a main character since McCoy.
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Old March 31 2013, 12:57 AM   #65
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Re: Star Trek Enterprise: The most "likable" cast?

teacake wrote: View Post
There hasn't been an actual sorta old person as a main character since McCoy.
DeForest Kelley was about 46 when starting TOS.
Patrick Stewart was 47 starting TNG.
Scott Bakula was about 46 or 47 (sources differ) starting ENT.

For VOY, Robert Beltran and Robert Picardo were the oldest, both about 42 in 1995.
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Old March 31 2013, 01:00 AM   #66
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Re: Star Trek Enterprise: The most "likable" cast?

That's why I said "sorta". McCoy was presented as the older guy.
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Old March 31 2013, 01:02 AM   #67
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Re: Star Trek Enterprise: The most "likable" cast?

Melakon wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
There hasn't been an actual sorta old person as a main character since McCoy.
DeForest Kelley was about 46 when starting TOS.
Patrick Stewart was 47 starting TNG.
Scott Bakula was about 46 or 47 (sources differ) starting ENT.
Yeah but Kelley seemed to have had a lot of wear and tear during those 46 years and 46 was far different in 1966 than it was in either '87 or 2001.
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Old March 31 2013, 01:04 AM   #68
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Re: Star Trek Enterprise: The most "likable" cast?

teacake wrote: View Post
That's why I said "sorta". McCoy was presented as the older guy.
Wasn't Tuvok originally suppose to be an older Vulcan before they cast Tim Russ for the part?
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Old March 31 2013, 01:18 AM   #69
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Re: Star Trek Enterprise: The most "likable" cast?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Yeah but Kelley seemed to have had a lot of wear and tear during those 46 years and 46 was far different in 1966 than it was in either '87 or 2001.
And Kelley, like James Doohan, was a WWII vet. Those bags under the eyes made him look older.
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Old March 31 2013, 01:29 AM   #70
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Re: Star Trek Enterprise: The most "likable" cast?

BillJ wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
That's why I said "sorta". McCoy was presented as the older guy.
Wasn't Tuvok originally suppose to be an older Vulcan before they cast Tim Russ for the part?
I don't know, but Vulcans are all older. T'Pol was in her 60's iirc.
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Old March 31 2013, 02:20 AM   #71
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Re: Star Trek Enterprise: The most "likable" cast?

Danger Ace wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
Well let's compare all five franchises in likability. Keep in mind this just my opinion and reflects personality over competence. ...
All opinions being equal, yours is an interesting list. My only real point-of-discussion would be regarding Mr. Spock as portrayed by Leonard Nimoy. I wouldn't be able to find anyone to trump his Mr. Spock in any catagory in which he found himself in.

One of the greatest of achiements in all of "Star Trek" history, as I see it, is Leonard Nimoy's unrivaled, top-notch work as Mr. Spock. If there was an MVP award to be given to the cast member who most went above-and-beyond the call of duty it would go to Nimoy.

From all the sources I've read and stories I've heard, Leonard Nimoy always questioned things from the standpoint of a dramatist. Things always viewed through the critical eye of motivation and dramatic integrity (as opposed to being solely concerned with line count). Leonard worked strove for quality and that translated to his magnificently skilled performance as Mr. Spock.

No other actor in all of Trekdom gave such a master-class study in bringing a depth of character and level of excellence to the art of pure acting. He came up with the nerve-pinch and Vulcan salute. His arching of the eye brow alone could speak volumes and communicate a wide variety of things depending on context.

As Spock he had to chart his own course in satisfying more distinct and various roles than any other (then or since). He had to internalize and balance the human and alien while performing the function of second-in-command, chief science officer, confident, friend. His TOS incarnation had to deal with more complexities and subtleties.

Leonard Nimoy was also old-school in terms of believing in the reality of his character and the world in which he lived. Modern era actors seem largely too self-conscious to go that far.

... but I gush.
As I said, my list reflected likeability based on the character's personality in my humble opinion. Spock was probably one of the most competent Trek characters, and Nimoy one of the franchise's finest actors. But let's face it... just look at Spock in Trek IV. As amusing as his fish out of waterness was, he was terrible at interacting with people, though nerve pinching the gangbanger was completely logical!

If I did this based on competence and ability, the order of all the categories would be drastically different.
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Old March 31 2013, 02:49 AM   #72
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Re: Star Trek Enterprise: The most "likable" cast?

So you wouldn't want to hang out with him?

I'll just add all of Vulcan to that category. After the novelty wore off I'd be heading for the nearest Ferengi bar.
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Old March 31 2013, 03:00 AM   #73
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Re: Star Trek Enterprise: The most "likable" cast?

R. Star wrote: View Post
As I said, my list reflected likeability based on the character's personality in my humble opinion.
Just to be clear, I am merely discussing an item of interest that you brought to the floor. In no way am I attempting to invalidate your opinion or right to it, therefore, I hope I haven't given that impression.

Spock was probably one of the most competent Trek characters, and Nimoy one of the franchise's finest actors. But let's face it... just look at Spock in Trek IV. As amusing as his fish out of waterness was, he was terrible at interacting with people, though nerve pinching the gangbanger was completely logical!
This is where I get honestly confused. If you take the first 4 TOS motion-pictures (TMP, TWoK, TSS, and TVH) in terms of Spock's arc it is an unintended masterpiece of character developement. In "Star Trek IV," Mr. Spock finally attains the holy-grail of his existence ... balance between his two-halves and inner peace. He becomes a truly wise being.

Almost a prophet in that once he has reconciled his two halves he eventually sets out to reconcile his people and the Romulans.

The Leonard Nimoy/Mr. Spock dynamic is just pure magic to my mind. Magnetic and awe-inspiring.

Again, just my opinion with no offense intended.
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Old March 31 2013, 07:24 AM   #74
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Re: Star Trek Enterprise: The most "likable" cast?

teacake wrote: View Post
So you wouldn't want to hang out with him?

I'll just add all of Vulcan to that category. After the novelty wore off I'd be heading for the nearest Ferengi bar.
Meet him? Sure... I'd be all over that just to say I did. But hanging out with him would probably lose it's novelty real quick as the awkward silence ensues. This is the guy who needed a few days to answer the question how do you feel? The same with any Vulcan really. So yeah... Come to Quark's! Quark's is fun! Don't walk, run!

Danger Ace wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
As I said, my list reflected likeability based on the character's personality in my humble opinion.
Just to be clear, I am merely discussing an item of interest that you brought to the floor. In no way am I attempting to invalidate your opinion or right to it, therefore, I hope I haven't given that impression.

Spock was probably one of the most competent Trek characters, and Nimoy one of the franchise's finest actors. But let's face it... just look at Spock in Trek IV. As amusing as his fish out of waterness was, he was terrible at interacting with people, though nerve pinching the gangbanger was completely logical!
This is where I get honestly confused. If you take the first 4 TOS motion-pictures (TMP, TWoK, TSS, and TVH) in terms of Spock's arc it is an unintended masterpiece of character developement. In "Star Trek IV," Mr. Spock finally attains the holy-grail of his existence ... balance between his two-halves and inner peace. He becomes a truly wise being.

Almost a prophet in that once he has reconciled his two halves he eventually sets out to reconcile his people and the Romulans.

The Leonard Nimoy/Mr. Spock dynamic is just pure magic to my mind. Magnetic and awe-inspiring.

Again, just my opinion with no offense intended.
No offense taken. I wasn't meaning to bash the character in any aspect, just pointing out... he's Vulcan. Vulcans aren't very sociable beyond saying what needs saying. So that damages his likability score. NuSpock certainly didn't do him any favors either in that department. That doesn't mean he's not an important part of the crew or the guy I'd want at the station next to me when it's hitting the fan, quite the opposite. Nor does it mean just because he isn't likable that he isn't entertaining to watch on the screen. Watching McCoy and Spock banter is always entertaining be it dramatic effect or comedy.

No apology needed, we have our opinions and this is a discussion board after all, so that is what we're supposed to do in theory!
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Old April 1 2013, 10:35 AM   #75
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Re: Star Trek Enterprise: The most "likable" cast?

teacake wrote: View Post
There hasn't been an actual sorta old person as a main character since McCoy.
Exactly. Can anyone tell me that this wouldn't have been better?

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