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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old March 27 2013, 11:42 AM   #16
The Mirrorball Man
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Re: My Review of Insurrection

DalekJim wrote: View Post
I really enjoy The Motion Picture, The Final Frontier and Insurrection whenever I watch them. It isn't an elitist thing, it's an emotional reaction I can't help.
That's very nicely put, and from that perspective, I'm sure you can understand that different opinions are just that, and not lowest common denominator garbage and all that claptrap.
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Old March 27 2013, 11:58 AM   #17
DalekJim
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Re: My Review of Insurrection

Lance wrote: View Post
I've always liked TFF for reasons that I can't easily define. It's like putting on an episode of TOS. A third season episode of TOS, but an episode of TOS all the same.
I really like it. It's a good film with a fair few goofy WTF moments but they don't spoil it for me.



Insurrection and Nemesis, not so much. I can see how Insurrection arguably feels the most like TNG as we knew it from TV, but there's still... something 'off' about it which I don't like. Maybe I'll just never be able to completely accept TNG as movies. It was such a class act on TV that everything they did in cinema paled in comparison. Even the much lauded First Contact.
I like the Star Trek film franchise (Well, not where it is at the moment but I digress!), though I'd say it really pales in comparison to the TV series. The TNG movies aren't as good as the show but aside from Wrath of Khan (Which certainly can compete with TOS at its best!) and The Undiscovered Country, none of the TOS films are as good as the average good TOS episode. Insurrection looks lame compared to masterful classics like The Inner Light, The Drumhead or The Measure of a Man but The Voyage Home looks really dumb compared to City on the Edge of Forever or Balance of Terror.

It annoys me that most casuals judge Trek on the film franchise. As Kirk said in STIV, "You're not exactly catching us at our best!".
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Old March 27 2013, 12:07 PM   #18
Lance
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Re: My Review of Insurrection

Star Trek is many things to many people, but I do agree. It was born of television, and I've always felt that it was at it's best on television. Oh sure, it lost its way somewhere near the end of the Berman run. But that was a clear case of burn-out behind the scenes, it wasn't an indication that Trek was poorly suited to the medium.

It does concern me too that Trek is often judged more in the casual sphere by its movies than by the (often superior IMO) television output. Evidently it reached a larger market and greater success in the cinema, but compromises were made to both TOS and TNG in order to translate them for the masses. Television Star Trek is more pure.
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Old March 27 2013, 12:29 PM   #19
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Re: My Review of Insurrection

Joby wrote: View Post
It's a crap as a movie, just crappy in a different way from the way NEM was crap.
Can we PLEASE stop it with the hi-falutin' Treknobabble here?
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Old March 29 2013, 03:05 AM   #20
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Re: My Review of Insurrection

DalekJim wrote: View Post
I really enjoy The Motion Picture, The Final Frontier and Insurrection whenever I watch them. It isn't an elitist thing, it's an emotional reaction I can't help. Mainstream critics' opinions don't really matter to me as they never really understood Star Trek anyway.
I can't help my own emotional reaction either when I see people parade TMP, INS and NEM as great works of art. They have their moments, even The Final Frontier has it's moments, but they will always be failed Treks to me. I will always view those who laud those movies with heavy praise as the cult within the cult being elitist and snobby. I don't believe there is any deep profound meaning in any of those Trek movies, and I don't consider them "artsy Trek movies". I think they are bad movies in general and often times unintentionally funny. I'm not changing that view and it's my right to have that opinion.

Mainstream critics should matter to most people that support Trek. Mainstream critics influence the general TV audience and average movie-goer and I think most critics these days do get Star Trek. Perhaps not in 1966, but since about the 1980s to present day most critics have likely figured it out. If you don't get enough ratings or box office sales, you won't always get Star Trek. TV Guide has long been a supporter for Star Trek, but even they started harping on the franchise during the tail run of ENT.
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Old March 29 2013, 12:52 PM   #21
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Re: My Review of Insurrection

Insurrection would have been much better if they just trimmed out the worthless komedy. The moral dilemma is a Star Trek staple, but not necessarily a "movie" staple, which is why so many big stupid movies are the most successful. Insurrection shouldn't have been stupid but it's certainly injured by the stupidity injected by the afformentioned komedy.

Although, I must say, and yes it's my own shot komedy but I'm not being paid for this post, but if they wanted to show age regression, they should have put the wig Checkov wore in Catspaw on Picard. I'd pay to see that.
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Old March 29 2013, 12:58 PM   #22
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Re: My Review of Insurrection

Joby wrote: View Post
I can't help my own emotional reaction either when I see people parade TMP, INS and NEM as great works of art. They have their moments, even The Final Frontier has it's moments, but they will always be failed Treks to me. I will always view those who laud those movies with heavy praise as the cult within the cult being elitist and snobby.


Mainstream critics should matter to most people that support Trek.
I find this view incredibly shallow and anti-individual, it has to be said.

The only Trek films I'd say are great works of art are Wrath of Khan and The Motion Picture. My other favourite Trek films are Undiscovered Country and First Contact, but they're just above average adventure shlock. Insurrection and The Final Frontier are messes but they entertain me, therefore they fulfill their purpose.
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Old March 29 2013, 02:29 PM   #23
Konata Izumi
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Re: My Review of Insurrection

Joby wrote: View Post
I will always view those who laud those movies with heavy praise as the cult within the cult being elitist and snobby.
It's not elitist if it's not meant to actually change what kind of movies they make, to some less inclusive direction. I don't know if even doing that would be elitist. They could do a poop comedy that no-one likes, it would be a different, smaller business but I guess it's debatable if doing a movie with endless mumbling narration would be an elitist move or just a change of businesses from whatever circumstances.

Not that that had anything to do with anything, here people just say what they like and dislike, with no elitist or any other agenda to change anything, so it's the same everyone else is doing, only the likes and dislikes may be similar to those of some elitists, it's just chattering.

Last edited by Konata Izumi; March 30 2013 at 12:54 AM.
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Old March 29 2013, 08:29 PM   #24
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Re: My Review of Insurrection

DalekJim wrote: View Post

I find this view incredibly shallow and anti-individual, it has to be said.
The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.
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Old March 30 2013, 02:34 AM   #25
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Re: My Review of Insurrection

One thing that isn't often remembered is that Insurrection got a lot of good press at the time it was released. I remember a lot of the movie reviews in newspapers etc were at the very least complimentary about it, indeed many of them were completely positive! How the movie's reputation managed to go from that to being "one of the worst movies in the entire franchise" is something of a mystery.
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Old March 30 2013, 02:57 AM   #26
Chrisisall
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Re: My Review of Insurrection

Lance wrote: View Post
How the movie's reputation managed to go from that to being "one of the worst movies in the entire franchise" is something of a mystery.
It wasn't 'epic', therefore it ends up on the crap list. Just 'good' is good enough no more it seems.
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Old March 30 2013, 03:22 AM   #27
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Re: My Review of Insurrection

Chrisisall wrote: View Post
Lance wrote: View Post
How the movie's reputation managed to go from that to being "one of the worst movies in the entire franchise" is something of a mystery.
It wasn't 'epic', therefore it ends up on the crap list. Just 'good' is good enough no more it seems.
Unfortunately, Insurrection was never good, so this point doesn't really apply.
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Old March 30 2013, 03:34 AM   #28
Chrisisall
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Re: My Review of Insurrection

RyuRoots wrote: View Post
Unfortunately, Insurrection was never good, so this point doesn't really apply.
LOL, well, sorry sir, I bow to your wisdom.
I rate Trek movies based on several measures, and Insurrection seemed to me to be a very good extended TNG episode. Glad to know I was wrong, and I shall make my positronic brain aware of this so that I can dislike any number of Trek movies based on your personal preference.
Can you download specs so that I can enjoy a bad time watching Trek similarly to you?
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Old March 30 2013, 03:42 AM   #29
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Re: My Review of Insurrection

Wouldn't I have to upload the specs? Downloading is what you'd be doing, after all.
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Old March 30 2013, 03:56 AM   #30
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Re: My Review of Insurrection

RyuRoots wrote: View Post
Wouldn't I have to upload the specs? Downloading is what you'd be doing, after all.
You are right- my emotion chip was on and interfering with my objectivity. Now that it's off, I can see that you are even righter than before.
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