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Old March 29 2013, 02:25 PM   #1
WesleysDisciple
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anyone else APPRECIATE chakotay's ethnic bits?

Anyone Else Appreciate Chakotay's ethnic/spiritual aspects.

his vision quest's his legends, etc.

have to ask as I found the scenes fun, but it seems everyone and their mother finds them cliche or offensive.
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Old March 29 2013, 02:30 PM   #2
Guy Gardener
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Re: anyone else APPRECIATE chakotay's ethnic bits?

If you are referring to what they did to the ethnic bits between his legs, I think that that is barbaric and I am amazed that the practice has continued into the 24th century.
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Old March 29 2013, 04:42 PM   #3
teya
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Re: anyone else APPRECIATE chakotay's ethnic bits?

WesleysDisciple wrote: View Post
Anyone Else Appreciate Chakotay's ethnic/spiritual aspects.

his vision quest's his legends, etc.

have to ask as I found the scenes fun, but it seems everyone and their mother finds them cliche or offensive.
See my signature.

No, I don't appreciate Chakotay's "ethnic bits."

But if you find it "fun" to insinuate that of all the human groups on earth, only Native Americans needed alien DNA to figure out how to speak to each other, be my guest. Just don't expect me to laugh with you.
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Old March 29 2013, 05:14 PM   #4
WesleysDisciple
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Re: anyone else APPRECIATE chakotay's ethnic bits?

Oh on the first reply, ... that particular practice, do you think the episode with Belonna wanting to Geneticly reengineer her baby so "She wont be treated as a monster" was based on that?
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Old March 29 2013, 05:23 PM   #5
sonak
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Re: anyone else APPRECIATE chakotay's ethnic bits?

what "ethnic bits?" They never even BOTHERED giving Chakotay a real ethnicity, instead making him a generic Indian with some New Age thrown in because they were too lazy to do research on a real tribe.
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Old March 29 2013, 05:39 PM   #6
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Re: anyone else APPRECIATE chakotay's ethnic bits?

WesleysDisciple wrote: View Post
Anyone Else Appreciate Chakotay's ethnic/spiritual aspects.

his vision quest's his legends, etc.
I would assume that actual Native Americans feel the same way about that as African Americans would feel about showing Geordie replicating fried chicken and watermelon and then calling it the "food of his ancestors".

Stereotypes of any kind are bad, but especially if they are not based in much fact.
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Old March 29 2013, 05:58 PM   #7
Ho Ho Homeier
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Re: anyone else APPRECIATE chakotay's ethnic bits?

When Chakotay used some electronic gizmo to get into his meditative state, it was so much New Age bullshit it was impossible for me to try and suspend disbelief anymore. I can appreciate that they wanted to do something ethnic with the guy, but it was such a mishmash. The only thing they left out was having him say "Paleface speak with forked tongue."
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Old March 29 2013, 06:10 PM   #8
WesleysDisciple
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Re: anyone else APPRECIATE chakotay's ethnic bits?

one possiblety? in the last 300 years, the Various tribes could have absorbed traditions their ancestors didnt practice, or could have been influenced by Holo recordings, and media BS?

not impossible?

At least one tribe, I heard in the news got a special dispensation from the supreme court to use PEyote in their rituals, not sure which tribe it was.
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Old March 29 2013, 08:44 PM   #9
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Re: anyone else APPRECIATE chakotay's ethnic bits?

WesleysDisciple wrote: View Post
one possiblety? in the last 300 years, the Various tribes could have absorbed traditions their ancestors didnt practice, or could have been influenced by Holo recordings, and media BS?
I've got no issue with saying that traditions would grow & change over time.

But if you're going to posit a character as a Native American, from a tribe that left Earth to live a more traditional lifestyle, then the traditions have to start from something real--something recognizeable as Indian by Indians.
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Old March 29 2013, 08:50 PM   #10
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Re: anyone else APPRECIATE chakotay's ethnic bits?

Peyotee was criminalized in the '40s, and then legalized in 1976 for religious purposes only. So, unless I'm reading my google search wrong which is backed up by a hazy memory from some stupid movie... It's all "tribes" who are allowed to start a prayer circle, and they can legally invite any non-first nation they want into the circle. From the movie I recall that some white guy was encouraged to make a donation to the church before the prayer circle started, which was a clever ruse to get around the DEA and the IRS.

Teya, you might not want to watch the final episodes Battlestar Galactica... Or maybe you would? They level the playing field, affirming that no one on Earth from it's centre to fartherest corners could "speak" until Giaus Balter started swinging his dick around with the native aboriginal girls and Starbuck declared her poonanny open season for any caveman brave enough to by ticket.

But then the legend/myth of astronauts gods is old.

Hell, there's even a 70s episode of Scoobie doo were an ancient Astronaut is haunting an Incan Zigerat... But don't be afraid, becuase that turned out not to be a real Ghost.
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Old March 29 2013, 09:01 PM   #11
WesleysDisciple
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Re: anyone else APPRECIATE chakotay's ethnic bits?

free2131 wrote: View Post
WesleysDisciple wrote: View Post
Anyone Else Appreciate Chakotay's ethnic/spiritual aspects.

his vision quest's his legends, etc.
I would assume that actual Native Americans feel the same way about that as African Americans would feel about showing Geordie replicating fried chicken and watermelon and then calling it the "food of his ancestors".

Stereotypes of any kind are bad, but especially if they are not based in much fact.
What about Samurai in movies shwon practicing customs not invented till the Tokugawa shogunate (which was an uninterrupted Era of Peace) during a time of battle?

is that bad?

dont forget the infamous platemail only got developed in the height of Medieval technolagy less then a century, before being superceded by Crossbows, and Firearms


But in general we wont be too angry at a little anachronism
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Old March 29 2013, 09:06 PM   #12
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Re: anyone else APPRECIATE chakotay's ethnic bits?

Or that Tom should have been sent to the brig for turning over the engine on that Model T without even a learners permit to his credit. It doesn't matter if he's 400 years in the future and 70 thousand light years away, the DMV is going to track him down and award him a moderate fine.
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Old March 29 2013, 09:27 PM   #13
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Re: anyone else APPRECIATE chakotay's ethnic bits?

WesleysDisciple wrote: View Post
free2131 wrote: View Post
WesleysDisciple wrote: View Post
Anyone Else Appreciate Chakotay's ethnic/spiritual aspects.

his vision quest's his legends, etc.
I would assume that actual Native Americans feel the same way about that as African Americans would feel about showing Geordie replicating fried chicken and watermelon and then calling it the "food of his ancestors".

Stereotypes of any kind are bad, but especially if they are not based in much fact.
What about Samurai in movies shwon practicing customs not invented till the Tokugawa shogunate (which was an uninterrupted Era of Peace) during a time of battle?

is that bad?

dont forget the infamous platemail only got developed in the height of Medieval technolagy less then a century, before being superceded by Crossbows, and Firearms


But in general we wont be too angry at a little anachronism
Apples/Oranges.

What you describe fits well within acceptable historical artistic license.

Chakotay was conceptual blackface.
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Old March 29 2013, 09:56 PM   #14
teya
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Re: anyone else APPRECIATE chakotay's ethnic bits?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Teya, you might not want to watch the final episodes Battlestar Galactica... Or maybe you would? They level the playing field, affirming that no one on Earth from it's centre to fartherest corners could "speak" until Giaus Balter started swinging his dick around with the native aboriginal girls and Starbuck declared her poonanny open season for any caveman brave enough to by ticket.
I did. Actually, the end result was that we humans are all descended from Athena & Helo's daughter--that Hera was mitochondrial Eve.

The difference is, of course, that BSG posits that *all* humans are descended from this Cylon-Human hybrid & a human on our Earth.

Voyager posits that other humans were smart enough to figure out how to speak on their own, it's just the Indians who were such dolts they needed the alien DNA.

In BSG-land, you and I can trace our ancestry back to Hera.

In Voyager-land, you come from smart humans, I come from idiots.

See the difference?

And BTW, Starbuck was dead by then...
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Old March 29 2013, 11:22 PM   #15
Guy Gardener
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Re: anyone else APPRECIATE chakotay's ethnic bits?

I was giving you a bone(, in a respectful way, well "leaning" towards respect.).

It's been a while since I saw the episode, becuase it was awful, but I thought that the aliens taught this imaginary tribe NOT to talk, because they inherited some sort of ant-telepathy or real telepathy from interbreeding with these Aliens.

Then from an evolutionary standpoint because they had a significant tactical advantage over their entire environment, they didn't have to evolve genetically or technologically from that point because they had run into a dead end that some how let them ignore the Eugenics War and World War III.

Besides the rest of the planet has to Thank that immortal hybrid(?) Flint (Leonardo-Da-fricking-Vinchi!)for inventing almost everything, and the Aegis for stopping World War III from starting too early, and probably a host of other guiding hands.

You are not alone.

(Ranting about "The Alien" have a very Lex Luthor lean to it.)

What's your view on the Preservers?

They thought Earth was doomed and then decided that the only people worth saving were the Native Americans? Every other country except Australia and parts of Africa at that point were studded with hopless alcoholics threaded with siphilis, so then who really should they have taken (also/instead)?

The Dutch?

Don't be frakking ridiculous!

OH.

TNG Masterpiece Society!

Poor stagnating backward Supermen bastards.

Although, the Fauxrish from Up the long ladder The-Villaged themselves on purpose because they didn't trust their children not to be idiots, overindustrialize and destroy the biosphere on their new Home world like how what Earth had was rotten at the time.

...

Miss Thrace was dead, but she had a loud, so very loud, louder than she was attractive somehow, Doppleganger rambling around demanding someone invent/build a damn Brewry when the final curtain fell on BSG. I aspologise for not distinguishing between the two chracters.
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