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Old March 29 2013, 12:28 AM   #181
TheGoodNews
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

yousirname wrote: View Post
Neither I nor anyone I know has ever used a spinning wheel, but I know what it is.
We all know what a spinning wheel is, I think it's safe to assume. How many of us here would actually know how to use one confidently? Or know, anticipate or understand with confidence the jargon skilled people might use with each other when operating one?
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Old March 29 2013, 12:30 AM   #182
yousirname
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

Never read A Tale of Two Cities but I imagine it mentions money being used at least once.
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Old March 29 2013, 12:34 AM   #183
CaptainStoner
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

TheGoodNews wrote: View Post
yousirname wrote: View Post
Neither I nor anyone I know has ever used a spinning wheel, but I know what it is.
We all know what a spinning wheel is, I think it's safe to assume. How many of us here would actually know how to use one confidently? Or know, anticipate or understand with confidence the jargon skilled people might use with each other when operating one?
My problem is finding a painted pony.
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Old March 29 2013, 12:36 AM   #184
yousirname
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

TheGoodNews wrote: View Post
yousirname wrote: View Post
Neither I nor anyone I know has ever used a spinning wheel, but I know what it is.
We all know what a spinning wheel is, I think it's safe to assume. How many of us here would actually know how to use one confidently? Or know, anticipate or understand with confidence the jargon skilled people might use with each other when operating one?
We're on the same mission.

T'Girl asks:
T'Girl wrote: View Post
Mister Spock. I propose our cut be put into the planetary treasury and used to guide the Iotians into a more ethical system.

Kirk and Spock in A Piece Of The Action, discussing money as if somehow they both knew exactly what it was.
... thereby proposing the false choice of either using money or being entirely ignorant of its existence, even in humanity's past. The spinning wheel is just one example that demonstrates the falsity of the choice.
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Old March 29 2013, 01:08 AM   #185
TheGoodNews
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

We're on the same mission.
I'm just working a wee bit too hard, that's all.
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Old March 29 2013, 08:16 AM   #186
ROBE
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

On the issue of skirts, they originally put the women in trousers and it was a woman's idea to put them in miniskirts. Likewise in the movies the women wore trousers and it was a woman's idea for a skirt to be added.

My local restaurant has switched from trousers to dresses for its waitresses and it was the waitresses idea.
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Old March 29 2013, 09:10 AM   #187
ZapBrannigan
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

ROBE wrote: View Post
On the issue of skirts, they originally put the women in trousers and it was a woman's idea to put them in miniskirts. Likewise in the movies the women wore trousers and it was a woman's idea for a skirt to be added.

My local restaurant has switched from trousers to dresses for its waitresses and it was the waitresses idea.
That's true. Any actress with a decent set of pins is willing to show them off, and for this I am grateful.

And I read somewhere that at the time of TOS, women considered the miniskirts daring and fun rather than sexist, even though they knew the look would not fit a real military workplace.

The only trouble is, Gene Roddenberry (according to INSIDE STAR TREK) was always insisting that skirts be shorter than costume designer W.W. Theiss wanted. He often sent actresses back to Theiss for hemlines to be shortened right up to the anatomical limit. His heart was in the right place; he just went a little too far.




Last edited by ZapBrannigan; March 29 2013 at 09:22 AM.
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Old March 29 2013, 11:18 AM   #188
ROBE
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

That is why I think you new movie has the length right.
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Old March 29 2013, 12:00 PM   #189
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

ROBE wrote: View Post
That is why I think you new movie has the length right.
The new movie doesn't have to put women in skirts to show skin, as the trailer with Marcus in black lingere attests to.
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Old March 29 2013, 01:35 PM   #190
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

Lingerie is overrated. But skirts are forever.

Since we already saw lingerie in the trailer for 2009's film, it's clearly indicative of the subconscious attitudinal worth of futuristic women through the modern hyper-masculine perspective so prevalent in media today. Apparently they're required not just to doff upper garments but equally required to possess permanent anti-1960s pants. Which is typically shameful of the Abramized rebooted TOS zeitgeist and such.
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Old March 29 2013, 06:34 PM   #191
T'Girl
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

TheGoodNews wrote: View Post
20th century colloquialisms
This was my take on why Spock didn't understand "exact change." If the request was for "exact monetary amount for fare" or something similar, then Spock likely wouldn't have been confused.

I certainly don't take Spock confusion as a indicator that the 23rd (or 24th) century don't engage in monetary value exchanges for purchases.

No physical money though? No problem.


Last edited by T'Girl; March 30 2013 at 10:43 AM.
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Old March 29 2013, 06:41 PM   #192
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

mos6507 wrote: View Post
ROBE wrote: View Post
That is why I think you new movie has the length right.
The new movie doesn't have to put women in skirts to show skin, as the trailer with Marcus in black lingere attests to.
Looked like regular blue underwear to me. A bra and panties.
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Old March 29 2013, 06:49 PM   #193
yousirname
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

T'Girl wrote: View Post
This was my take on why Spock didn't understand "exact change." If the request was for "exact monitary amount for fare" or something similar, then Spock likely wouldn't have been confused.

I certainly don't take Spock confusion as a indicator that the 23rd (or 24th) century don't engage in monitary value exchanges for purchaces.

No physical money though? No problem.
Kirk says in TVH: "They're still using money, we'll need to get some."

Not "they're still using physical currency, we'll need to get some," and it doesn't make sense to interpret it in that way, either. Even if there was only virtual currency/credits/whatever they'd still need to get some. "They're still using money" there only makes sense if Kirk et al come from a time where they don't use money, of any description.

Lily asks Picard "How much did this thing cost?" Picard responds "The economics of the future are somewhat different. You see, money doesn't exist in the 24th century."

It again makes no sense for Picard to offer that as a response unless he is saying not that physical currency is obsolete but that money itself is no longer in use.

Plenty of contradictions, of course. Possibly the only aspect of Trek where canon is more irretrievably self-contradictory is the precise workings of the transporter.
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Old March 29 2013, 11:37 PM   #194
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

yousirname wrote: View Post
Kirk says in TVH: "They're still using money, we'll need to get some."

Not "they're still using physical currency, we'll need to get some,"
I'm sure it was just a shorthand. If he had said the second version, it would sound awkward.

As for Picard: He's been known to lecture people pompously.
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Old March 30 2013, 11:01 AM   #195
T'Girl
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
mos6507 wrote: View Post
... with Marcus in black lingere attests to.
Looked like regular blue underwear to me. A bra and panties.
Women's underwear in general is referred to as lingerie.

Lingere on the other hand (in case mos6507 didn't know) means "licking."

Freudian slip much?

yousirname wrote: View Post
Kirk says in TVH: "They're still using money, we'll need to get some."

Not "they're still using physical currency, we'll need to get some," and it doesn't make sense to interpret it in that way, either.
But Kirk's statement came just after the group witnessed a woman using coins (i.e. physical currency) to purchase a newspaper from a vending machine.

Lily asks Picard "How much did this thing cost?" Picard responds "The economics of the future are somewhat different. You see, money doesn't exist in the 24th century."
And Picard dialog there is the sole reference to there being no money in the future.

In the double episode Reunification, a woman solicited a gratuity from Riker, Riker doesn't respond with "Sorry dear, money doesn't exist in the 24th century." Instead he said that he doesn't carry money, indicating that Riker associates "money" with something you carry. Something physical.

In 'Tribbles, Uhura went to the K7 station to do some shopping, and at one point offered to purchace a tribble, asking how much one cost. Now wait, Uhura wasn't carrying a purse and her uniform possessed no pockets, where was her currency? She was going to be paying yes, but not with physical "money."

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