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Old March 28 2013, 04:09 PM   #2071
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Re: Mass Effect 3

A lot of things would have made the game better, but there was only so much that could be included in the time available and with the budget they had. Having a journalist on the Normandy *should* have been a great way to implement that connection, but we all know what a dull waste of time she turned out to be.

I was actually playing the game earlier today (doing an insanity run with my renegade engie) and while doing the Surkesh mission I found myself noting (not for the first time) that they never did directly address what Cerberus were up to. I get the impression that it was originally meant to be made pretty much definitive that they were indeed all indoctrinated by the reapers but certain lines were cut and the loose plot threads are just left to flap around being unclear.

Perhaps they realised they'd created a plothole with the Horizon mission since it's established early on that the whole organization had been co-opted that it'd make no sense for TIM to have been able to develop a way to block the reaper signal, nor would the reapers have attacked sanctuary.

As it stands the only way I can make sense of things is that TIM's hold on his indoctrinated troops was always tenuous and the reapers were able to subjugate whole groups of them at a time. It would certainly explain Benning and Surkesh.
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Old March 28 2013, 05:55 PM   #2072
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Re: Mass Effect 3

The Mirrorball Man wrote: View Post
Yeah, the game kinda expect you to have an emotional connection to Earth, since it's not a fictional place and considering that it's your home and the home of everything you know and everyone you like.
Actually, the Earth of Mass Effect IS a fictional place and it is not the home of everyone we know. My family and friends don't live on Mass Effect's Earth, so why should I feel connected to it? What exactly does Earth give in the mass Effect universe that makes it unique? I can tell you that a lot of other science fiction franchises don't have Asari, Krogen, Turians ect, but a lot of them do have an Earth. There's not even one freaking alien on Earth in Mass Effect 3, so all we're pretty much doing is saving a "Homo-sapions only planet". At least on Tuchanka you can see Krogen with their alien mates. Yep. The worn down homeworld of the Krogen have more diversity than Earth.
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Old March 28 2013, 06:09 PM   #2073
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Re: Mass Effect 3

As an aside from ME3;

I started my canon trilogy play through a few days with a Paragon FemShep. About 20 hours in so far, and loving it all over again. Hadn't played the first game for about 3 years prior to this - the things that I remember frustrating me before (Mako, clunky combat, inventory system) hardly bother me at all now. ME1 has a sense of scale that's never really been recaptured in the second and third games - the Citadel is huge, Noveria too, then there's Feros as well. One thing that the Mako did do was to give the planets a sense of size. In the later games you land, kick ass, and then get back on the Normandy. Generally speaking.

The number of side-missions is staggering, and there seems to be more variety than in the later games, particularly ME3. Good job there's a proper journal system to keep track of everything. Missed that in ME3 too.

Quite like the ranking system and equipment setting as well. The dialogue wheel seems populated, but not as refined as in ME2 - ie. there's often a choice of things to say, yet whichever one you pick you end up saying pretty much the same thing anyway. Can't remember if ME2 did that quite so much. Guess I'll find out soon.

A few more side missions to do and then on to Virmire. Sorry Ash, knowing what I know now, I think you'll be getting a one-way ticket through the pearly gates this time. Kaidan was so much better in the final game. Wrex will be surviving this time too.

There's so much in ME1 that I'd forgotten that it almost seems like an entirely new game.
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Old March 28 2013, 06:33 PM   #2074
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Jeyl wrote: View Post
Actually, the Earth of Mass Effect IS a fictional place and it is not the home of everyone we know.
That's a fallacy. Of course every place in every piece of fiction is by definition fictional. Of course even real people become fictional when they're used as characters in a novel or a movie. In a way, the Earth of Mass Effect is not anymore "the real Earth" than the Earth of Sense and Sensibility is. But the attachment, the feelings of compassion, those that make it possible to feel any connection to fictional characters, are real. The Earth of Mass Effect is a fictional place, that's true, but it is also Earth, and we feel a connection to it - except our psychopathic friends - because Earth is everything we know.
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Old March 28 2013, 10:39 PM   #2075
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Jeyl wrote: View Post
That's one of the reasons I liked TIM as the antagonist in the second game. He represented the human element that doesn't want to be looked at as equals to all the other races in the galaxy. He wants humanity to be the 'dominate power' over everyone else and he was willing to do whatever it took to ensure that goal.
It'd be interesting to do a super pro-human, anti-alien Shepard sometime, having Ashley kill Wrex on Virmire, and then ensure only Miranda, Jacob, Jack, Kasumi, and Zaeed survive the suicide mission. Unfortunately, Liara is completely unkillable in ME3... *grumble*
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Old March 28 2013, 10:47 PM   #2076
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Re: Mass Effect 3

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Unfortunately, Liara is completely unkillable in ME3... *grumble*
Low EMS Beam run with Liara in your squad = RIP Liara......
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Old March 28 2013, 10:58 PM   #2077
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Yeah.... but the game's practically over by that point.

I did start a new engineer last night since I love the class so much, which I'll dabble with on the side while I primarily work on the vanguard, who's about halfway through ME2 currently. Plan with the engineer is to romance Kaidan in ME1, Thane in ME2, and then hook up with Kaidan again after Thane inevitably dies. Need someone to fill the gap while Kaidan's dickering around on Horizon / laying in the hospital! I'm curious if you still get the Thane romance stuff in the Citadel DLC if you've hooked up with someone else afterwards.
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Old March 28 2013, 11:03 PM   #2078
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Re: Mass Effect 3

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Yeah.... but the game's practically over by that point.
You're kidding, you've still got that epic boss battle against Marauder Shields afterwards!

I'm curious if you still get the Thane romance stuff in the Citadel DLC if you've hooked up with someone else afterwards.
Pretty sure that you don't.
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Old March 29 2013, 04:32 AM   #2079
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Re: Mass Effect 3

The Mirrorball Man wrote: View Post
Jeyl wrote: View Post
Actually, the Earth of Mass Effect IS a fictional place and it is not the home of everyone we know.
That's a fallacy. Of course every place in every piece of fiction is by definition fictional. Of course even real people become fictional when they're used as characters in a novel or a movie. In a way, the Earth of Mass Effect is not anymore "the real Earth" than the Earth of Sense and Sensibility is. But the attachment, the feelings of compassion, those that make it possible to feel any connection to fictional characters, are real. The Earth of Mass Effect is a fictional place, that's true, but it is also Earth, and we feel a connection to it - except our psychopathic friends - because Earth is everything we know.
No, it's one or the other. I don't know anyone on Mass Effect's Earth. Maria Shepard may not have even VISITED Earth before the tribunal. It's stupid to expect people to care about Earth because "I LIV THER FOR REEL!!!!!!!"

It's a cheap cop-out used by hack writers. Obviously I know that I live here and all my family and friends do, but I'm no more a psychopath for not connecting to a fictional version with none of those people in it and absolutely no context to make me connect to anyone or anything else.

The fiction provides me no reason to care. That's the heart of the matter. Expecting me to because of outside influence, no matter how basic, only betrays a weakness in the work itself. Star:Trek First Contact? That made me care. Lilly and Zefram were a real, tangible connection. Obviously you *appreciate* the Borg threat, but they give you a very real, personal context. That's an example of that scenario done well. Not that that approach would've necessarily worked well here, but that's not the point.

If a work of fiction cannot stand up on its own merits and expects you to care about its locations and people without providing any reason or context, then that's a bad work of fiction.
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Old March 29 2013, 12:36 PM   #2080
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Whichever way you choose to look at it, Earth is a place where 10 billion people live. That alone should be enough for ANY Shepard give a crap. Failing that, it's the place where Anderson is and if you don't care about that, them you *must* have been indoctrinated after all.

Small aside, but whatever Shepard's origin, she/he at some point must have visited Earth (Rio de Janeiro, specifically) since that's where the Interplanetary Combatives Training program is based and were the N1 course is held. The off-world training doesn't start until the N2 - N6 courses. And if that's not enough; the Normandy starts it's journey in Earth orbit right at the beginning of Mass Effect 1, so Shep most likely embarked as XO on the ground.
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Old March 29 2013, 01:39 PM   #2081
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Of course any Shepard should care at least a little bit about Earth regardless of his or her own origin. That wasn't the issue (from my perspective). The issue was that BioWare didn't do enough to make me, the player, care about Earth. They just assumed "Oh, we live on Earth, so everyone will automatically be emotionally invested!" but that's never really worked for me. Even in Star Trek movies, for example, I kind of roll my eyes when the inevitable threat to Earth pops up. At this point it's become an overused trope, more cliched and boring than gripping and emotional.
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Old March 29 2013, 01:46 PM   #2082
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Well it's a bit of a catch 22, no? Either they spend a lot of time on Earth and developing your attachment to it, the people and the fictional world there OR develop the story out in space with all the alien races, colonies and mysterious unknown worlds. They can't really do both in the time allotted.

Personally, while I was always curious about ME's version of future Earth, I never lamented not going there until ME3. I mean when you get right down to it, future Earth is just modern Earth with bigger skyscrapers, flying cars and automatic sliding doors everywhere. I think Bioware quite rightly took it as read that most players were already familiar enough with the planet they currently inhabit and instead focused on the more interesting stuff. Which, let's be honest, is where the actual story is. Even then, for those that were curious, there's plenty of info in the codex to give a better understanding.
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Old March 29 2013, 02:04 PM   #2083
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Re: Mass Effect 3

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Whichever way you choose to look at it, Earth is a place where 10 billion people live. That alone should be enough for ANY Shepard give a crap. Failing that, it's the place where Anderson is and if you don't care about that, them you *must* have been indoctrinated after all.
There's a difference between "don't care about Anderson" and "have more important things to worry about". Especially since he's this weird out-of-continuity not-the-Council-member Anderson.
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Old March 29 2013, 06:46 PM   #2084
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Unless I'm misremembering, I'm pretty sure it's referred to several times if Anderson was the original human councillor. But yeah, I know what you're saying, it does rather break the immersion when supposedly big decisions have next to no impact later on. Case-in-point, my renegade engie just did the rachni mission...an utterly meaningless decision, no?

Also, whatever happened to the all human council and the citadel becoming something of an oppressive dictatorship? I get that there are technical limitations, but they really should have thought ahead with some of these options.
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Old March 29 2013, 06:50 PM   #2085
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Your decisions are powerless in the face of Udina's near-invulnerable plot armour......
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