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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old March 27 2013, 10:39 PM   #31
Melakon
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Re: Stunt double madness

With "Space Seed" (no current copy unfortunately), one thing that hurts the fight scene is the stuntmen are visible far too long and there's not enough intercutting of close shots on Shatner and Montalban. Maybe there wasn't enough time to shoot the additional angles.

The most dangerous stunt looks like where Kirk grabs the grating in front of the forced-perspective set, and doesn't he wrap his legs around Khan? I can understand why they might not let the stars do that. There's risk of injury to the other actor, and if that grill wasn't secured properly, the whole thing could have fallen out.

And even a simple stunt like a fall, or struggling, could cause a pulled muscle or sprain sidelining an actor. On The Wild Wild West, Robert Conrad often did his own stunts, and once cracked his head open when a chandelier swing failed and the prop crashed to the floor.
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Old March 27 2013, 11:01 PM   #32
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Re: Stunt double madness

I thought this was funny

Gary Mitchell VS Kirk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRw6GCjSr_Q
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Old March 27 2013, 11:30 PM   #33
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Re: Stunt double madness

foxhot wrote: View Post
Many of you likely notice that the bridge sequence in OPERATION ANNIHILATE not only has stunt doubles for physical action, but for bystanders as well. Uhura and the Yeoman were actually replaced by stand-ins for a few seconds.
I'm pretty sure the yeoman is the same actress. And Nichelle Nichols is not seen at any point in the entire scene, and the woman at the communications station has no rank stripes on her sleeves, suggesting that it's not a doubled Uhura but just a relief comm officer of enlisted rank.


Melakon wrote: View Post
With "Space Seed" (no current copy unfortunately), one thing that hurts the fight scene is the stuntmen are visible far too long and there's not enough intercutting of close shots on Shatner and Montalban. Maybe there wasn't enough time to shoot the additional angles.
That's why a lot of things in TV are imperfect: because there's simply not enough time to do them right.


The most dangerous stunt looks like where Kirk grabs the grating in front of the forced-perspective set, and doesn't he wrap his legs around Khan? I can understand why they might not let the stars do that. There's risk of injury to the other actor, and if that grill wasn't secured properly, the whole thing could have fallen out.
After the stuntmen initiate the leg-hold maneuver, we cut to a close-up of Shatner and Montalban already in that pose. But I guess getting there in the first place was the dangerous part. Shatner and Montalban were probably maneuvered more carefully into that position with the help of the stunt supervisor and a couple of stagehands.


And even a simple stunt like a fall, or struggling, could cause a pulled muscle or sprain sidelining an actor.
Yes. Falls can be dangerous, which is why learning how to fall safely is such a large part of any stunt or fight training. Gravity is a harsh mistress.
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Old March 27 2013, 11:59 PM   #34
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Re: Stunt double madness

Another falling stunt you see a lot in any action shows is where the hero jumps down from a higher level onto the bad guys. Watch the guys being jumped on, and they're actually catching the guy to help break the fall. Instead of stepping back and letting him faceplant the floor like real bad guys would. The stunt guys really deserve their own Oscar and Emmy categories, it's tough work.
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Old March 28 2013, 03:54 AM   #35
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Re: Stunt double madness

Melakon wrote: View Post
Another falling stunt you see a lot in any action shows is where the hero jumps down from a higher level onto the bad guys. Watch the guys being jumped on, and they're actually catching the guy to help break the fall. Instead of stepping back and letting him faceplant the floor like real bad guys would. The stunt guys really deserve their own Oscar and Emmy categories, it's tough work.
Shatner should recieve more credit himself, as he performed some great stunts on TOS; someone already mentioned the fall in "Journey to Babel," but another notable stunt was the close up of his leap/kick over the med table in "Mirror, Mirror" and the fights with Tracey (both) and Cloud William in "The Omega Glory."

It really paid off when Shatner was cleary involved.
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Old March 28 2013, 04:12 AM   #36
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Re: Stunt double madness

The Taste of Armageddon fight when Anan 7 leads Kirk into a trap is my favorite. Shatner does several good moves, gets knocked out and dragged down the corridor all in about 30 seconds, with no double.
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Old March 28 2013, 06:18 AM   #37
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Re: Stunt double madness

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Shatner should recieve more credit himself, as he performed some great stunts on TOS; someone already mentioned the fall in "Journey to Babel," but another notable stunt was the close up of his leap/kick over the med table in "Mirror, Mirror" and the fights with Tracey (both) and Cloud William in "The Omega Glory."

It really paid off when Shatner was cleary involved.
That's right. I would add the flying drop kicks he delivered in The Paradise Syndrome and Spectre of the Gun. If I'm not mistaken, he was taking karate lessons on his own time.
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Old March 28 2013, 09:49 AM   #38
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Re: Stunt double madness

Maurice wrote: View Post
Production insurance limits what actors are allowed to do. Even simple stunts can result in injury, and injury = time away from the set = money.
ssosmcin wrote: View Post
How does that factor into Shatner doing an entire fight himself in some episodes, and being stunt double heavy for simple gags in others?
I simply explained why stuntmen are sometimes used. I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on how the use of stuntmen were approved or not used on any given episode, but typically it depends on the risk. There's a nice example in the book Chekov's Enterprise where Walter explains how the stunt of Spock getting zapped by the V'ger probe was done and how much more dangerous the stunt was than it looked, which was why there was a stunt double.
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Old March 28 2013, 06:24 PM   #39
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Re: Stunt double madness

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Melakon wrote: View Post
Another falling stunt you see a lot in any action shows is where the hero jumps down from a higher level onto the bad guys. Watch the guys being jumped on, and they're actually catching the guy to help break the fall. Instead of stepping back and letting him faceplant the floor like real bad guys would. The stunt guys really deserve their own Oscar and Emmy categories, it's tough work.
Shatner should recieve more credit himself, as he performed some great stunts on TOS; someone already mentioned the fall in "Journey to Babel," but another notable stunt was the close up of his leap/kick over the med table in "Mirror, Mirror" and the fights with Tracey (both) and Cloud William in "The Omega Glory."

It really paid off when Shatner was cleary involved.
Props to 42 year old Morgan Woodward too for The Omega Glory.
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Old March 28 2013, 06:31 PM   #40
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Re: Stunt double madness

And even a simple stunt like a fall, or struggling, could cause a pulled muscle or sprain sidelining an actor.
Yes. Falls can be dangerous, which is why learning how to fall safely is such a large part of any stunt or fight training. Gravity is a harsh mistress.
I recommend lots of dodgeball and being a soccer goalie.
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Old March 28 2013, 07:41 PM   #41
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Re: Stunt double madness

Well, however easy it is to sprain an ankle or break a hip, Shatner did the whole Kirk vs Air Force dudes fight in Tomorrow Is Yesterday, complete with a handful of stunt guys, punches, falls, jumps and swings off the doorsill. They even tackled him and slammed him to the floor. Made the brawl that much more exciting, and it the primary reason for my wondering why he didn't do more simple fights.

As for whether or not the stunt guy in Space Seed or Court Martial was noticeable before HD, damn straight he was. When Kirk does the running kick to Khan, the guy looked totally different; different body type, different hair, totally different face. Khan also got like 6 inches shorter. If they would have just matched Shatner's hair, it would have gone a long way. Again, like they did in Whom Gods Destroy. Maybe they only had one wig at the time.

What's even more funny is how Shatner tries to convince people in Star Trek Movie Memories that he did this moves himself and resurrected them for his Kirk vs Kruge fight in Trek III. and then Jimmy Doohan did the same thing by claiming to do the "thrown by Apollo" stunt in Who Mourns for Adonias? in Beam me Up Scotty. Such fun....
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Old March 28 2013, 07:56 PM   #42
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Re: Stunt double madness

I hope the book helped pay for Jimmy Jones' hospital bill then.
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Old March 28 2013, 08:04 PM   #43
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Re: Stunt double madness

ssosmcin wrote: View Post
Maybe they only had one wig at the time.
According to Solow & Justman's Inside Star Trek: The Real Story, Shatner had a habit of taking his hairpieces home after each season. Though they were expensive, custom fitted for him, they were legally studio property. But you'd think they would have built some artificial hair wig cap for the stunt guys.
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Old March 28 2013, 08:18 PM   #44
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Re: Stunt double madness

I noticed that Spiner seems to do a pretty drastic 'pull across the room' stunt for The Most Toys.
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Old March 28 2013, 09:22 PM   #45
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Re: Stunt double madness

That was probably Brian J. Williams, Spiner's primary stunt double.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Brian_J._Williams

There's even a screenshot of the stunt.
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