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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old March 28 2013, 02:35 PM   #61
CaptainDave1701
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Re: Has star trek changed

Why don't we listen to the "Great Bird" himself in his own words....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThcAr1LZ-Cc
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Old March 28 2013, 02:42 PM   #62
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Has star trek changed

Wow, that link makes me sorry that Jesus Christ didn't post YouTube rants.

I mean, he could have if he'd wanted to.
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Old March 28 2013, 03:09 PM   #63
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Re: Has star trek changed

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
Wow, that link makes me sorry that Jesus Christ didn't post YouTube rants.

I mean, he could have if he'd wanted to.
Roddenberry sounded stoned. And, yeah he worked on the movies as much as he wanted.
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Old March 28 2013, 03:13 PM   #64
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Re: Has star trek changed

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
Wow, that link makes me sorry that Jesus Christ didn't post YouTube rants.

I mean, he could have if he'd wanted to.
Maybe he did. Maybe he does. Maybe one of them is Mr. Christ.
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Old March 28 2013, 03:36 PM   #65
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Re: Has star trek changed

Now Jesus Christ, there was a guy with a vision, and one that didn't revolve around cranking out TV pilots and banging the talent in his office. I'm pretty sure I'd be willing to listen to him review Transformers II.

Roddenberry worked on the movies after ST:TMP to the extent that the studio would permit it. This meant that he was free to offer suggestions to the producers and they were free to ignore him altogether.
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Old March 28 2013, 04:35 PM   #66
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Re: Has star trek changed

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Gojira wrote: View Post
mos6507 wrote: View Post

I don't see how you can expect to not hear the phrase "Gene's vision" in a Trek BBS. Should we just erect JJ-specific Trek hangouts so people like you can avoid Trek purists?
I think the term "Gene's Vision" has reached mythical proportions at this time to the point where it really isn't true. I think Gene's true vision was making money.

I do not mean to sound cynical because I do not think I am being cynical. I just think that the whole "Gene's vision" overrated. Plus Star Trek was made into what it became through the vision of many, not just one man.
I know it's been denied, but Zephram Cochrane in First Contact screamed "commentary on Gene Roddenberry" the minute he gave that speech in the cockpit of the Phoenix.

He was a man of his times, he had some good ideals and a knack for getting some of the best and brightest to work for him,but he got turned into a hero and idol long after the fact by fans that only know the PR version of Gene.
I did always think that Cochrane's speech was about Gene too. From what i know money and women were very important to him!
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Old March 28 2013, 04:39 PM   #67
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Re: Has star trek changed

I hope so, it needed to change. It didn't change the way I thought immediately after Enterprise...I thought there might be a movie first but that an eventual TV show may have some science fiction writers on the staff or producing it. Actually what I discovered a few years ago is that my timeline for a show was probably right, but that it would have producers with cachet Like McFarlane, Singer, JJ ABrams or the like to get it on.

Ultimately Berman and Braga as well as other producers did produce some good work on Voyager and Enterprise, but overall the sameness made it feel tired. The shows needed new producers and writers as well as a new "vision" (vision doesn't have to be visionary lol), this might include updating the production, writing and filming methods. What it should keep at the core, even if different outwardly would be a future where the environment allows people and organizations (like the UFP) to function on a cooperative level..I don't like using the word utopia, but for lack of a better word it should be positive, space travel perfected. I think a TV show might explore this more in depth, but I like what we've got...JJTrek still has many elements of 2001: A Space Odyssey, it has the idea of Starfleet as peacekeepers, STID has them as explorers to begin with, and most of all it is not a dystopia, like 85% of even the big blockbuster scifi hits (think of the big budget, big name movies coming out this year that actually are scifi). The technology is not leading us to doom. The people are self-motivated and positive! Pike is Kirk after a 5 year mission!

One last note: It's been discussed before but Gene Roddenberry didn't invent anything, he popularized a LOT! Along with Coon, Justman and the bunch--which Gene endlessly credited with helping him--they made a series which wasn't an anthology that still told allegories based on a city in space...at a time when everyone was thinking small...rockets and saucers. Then they put it on TV...I don't think Gene really planned on having women and different races being controversial, I think he thought it should be normal, but it still made a splash. By hiring people like Jefrries, he tried to make the show believable, grounding the 23rd century for what normally might seem like a wild fantasy to your average TV viewer.

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Old March 28 2013, 05:04 PM   #68
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Re: Has star trek changed

It has evolved with the times in both good and bad ways.
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Old March 28 2013, 06:49 PM   #69
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Re: Has star trek changed

Joby wrote: View Post
I think what I miss from Gene Roddenberry was the "futurist" aspect he contributed to Star Trek. Gene didn't appear to be a very good writer and came up with some kooky stories, but he did have some really cool futurist ideas that made into it Trek. Some ideas were too futurist for 20th century/early 21st century audiences, but plenty others made it into TOS and TNG and I'm all the grateful for it. I also liked how he tried to distance away from the TOS style and TOS aliens when doing TNG, again Gene wasn't a total loon, I think he was a pretty good TV pitchman and futurist, just not a very good writer/storyteller. But as others have repeatedly said, there really is no such thing as "Gene's vision" for Trek, other then something to energize the fanbase in the 1970s and early 80s.
Somewhat unfair, he had a few ideas in the 60s, which doesn't mean he didn't have human foibles...but I don't think it's fair to say a man can't grow and learn philosophically all the while having issues (drinking and drugs were worse than being unfaithful because I think they damaged his thought process and brought about his early demise), he admits as much in 80s interviews. He learned and adapted between TOS, STTMP and STNG so they naturally were going to be different.

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Old March 28 2013, 07:11 PM   #70
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Re: Has star trek changed

BillJ wrote: View Post
My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
Wow, that link makes me sorry that Jesus Christ didn't post YouTube rants.

I mean, he could have if he'd wanted to.
Roddenberry sounded stoned. And, yeah he worked on the movies as much as he wanted.
Roddenbery listened to a lot of scientists and philosophers in the 70s, he makes some remarkably perceptive comments in part 2...little did he know...

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Old March 28 2013, 09:48 PM   #71
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Re: Has star trek changed

Harvey wrote: View Post
"Gene's Vision" has been an effective marketing strategy for the franchise since the seventies, but as many others have posted, it doesn't have much concrete meaning because it (a) exaggerates Roddenberry's status as a "visionary," (b) gives him credit for the creations of others, and (c) has been constantly revised to sell whatever the latest product happens to be.

When Star Trek: Voyager came out, the idea that Roddenberry at first wanted a woman as the lead in the original series was fed to the media more than once. Earlier, Brandon Tartikoff wanted the dedication in front of Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country to invoke "Gene's vision." Roddenberry, of course, had almost nothing to do with that film, clashing in meetings with Nick Meyer and ultimately refusing credit as "executive consultant" before his death. And so on and so forth...

Anyone decrying the fact that the Bad Robot version of the franchise conceives of it as an action-adventure series has obviously never read a Roddenberry story memo from the 60s. Rarely did an episode go by where Roddenberry didn't comment on ways of increasing the action-adventure potential.
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Old March 28 2013, 10:00 PM   #72
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Re: Has star trek changed

Star Trek should always change with the times. It should never be stagnant. Just keep a vague message with the ships and fighting and it will continue to be like itself.
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Old March 28 2013, 10:07 PM   #73
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Re: Has star trek changed

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Which cool futurist ideas were those?
I'll bite: the idea that technology would eliminate the need to work for money.
With minimum wage, he's come close. Ba-dum-tish.
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Old March 29 2013, 12:00 AM   #74
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Re: Has star trek changed

I myself have always liked and felt passionate over GR view of our future and over time this view of the future has changed with the history and trends.

JJ,s vision is a eye opener and I'm always getting a buzz about this. I know people that I know just say that it's just a TV series that was made in the 60,s that was cheesy its make believe but to me it's a Positive and Realistic vision of our future as a human species and if we ever come into contact with ET race and there similar to us will our world change will we have a better understanding of our universe.. Who knows ???

When I watched the 1st movie it was jaw dropping good a Star Trek film that deserved to be made on a grand scale.. Only time I have had this similar feeling is when I've watched Star Trek TMP before that film we had a series that the budget was very tight but when you see and watch TMP you really get the Feel it deserved to be on the big screen and I feel that JJ has done that again in the 2009 film and hopefully with the release of STID.....
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Old March 29 2013, 12:12 AM   #75
Flake
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Re: Has star trek changed

Keep on changin' and Keep on Trekkin' for the next 50 years. Reboot/Re-Imagine/Retcon/Remake etc just stay relevant and stay cool. Trek will have to change a great deal in the next decade to keep up with the technological revolution currently taking place (cheap computing devices/smart devices/phones/tablets/smart tv/internet/robotics/medicine).. these movies are just the start. For every old fan that gets pissed off there should be 10 new ones to take their place. Thats how you keep it going.
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