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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old March 28 2013, 01:28 AM   #46
Harvey
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Re: Has star trek changed

"Gene's Vision" has been an effective marketing strategy for the franchise since the seventies, but as many others have posted, it doesn't have much concrete meaning because it (a) exaggerates Roddenberry's status as a "visionary," (b) gives him credit for the creations of others, and (c) has been constantly revised to sell whatever the latest product happens to be.

When Star Trek: Voyager came out, the idea that Roddenberry at first wanted a woman as the lead in the original series was fed to the media more than once. Earlier, Brandon Tartikoff wanted the dedication in front of Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country to invoke "Gene's vision." Roddenberry, of course, had almost nothing to do with that film, clashing in meetings with Nick Meyer and ultimately refusing credit as "executive consultant" before his death. And so on and so forth...

Anyone decrying the fact that the Bad Robot version of the franchise conceives of it as an action-adventure series has obviously never read a Roddenberry story memo from the 60s. Rarely did an episode go by where Roddenberry didn't comment on ways of increasing the action-adventure potential.
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Old March 28 2013, 02:17 AM   #47
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Re: Has star trek changed

DalekJim wrote: View Post
yousirname wrote: View Post
Also don't understand the view that Abrams 'has no interest' in science fiction. He's involved, however tangentially, in making so much of the stuff - Lost, Cloverfield, Super-8, Star Trek 2009, Star Wars - he seems to have at least a passing interest, no?
The only one of those I'd consider to be true science-fiction would be the time travel episodes of Lost and he had zero influence on them. They were conceived of/written by Damon Lindelof and Calrton Cuse

He is from the Spielberg/Lucas school of thought regarding the genre which is PERFECT for Star Wars Episode VII but entirely wrong for Star Trek. My two pence.
The phrase "true science fiction" is about as meaningless as "true Star Trek".
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Old March 28 2013, 02:58 AM   #48
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Re: Has star trek changed

DalekJim wrote: View Post
yousirname wrote: View Post
Also don't understand the view that Abrams 'has no interest' in science fiction. He's involved, however tangentially, in making so much of the stuff - Lost, Cloverfield, Super-8, Star Trek 2009, Star Wars - he seems to have at least a passing interest, no?
The only one of those I'd consider to be true science-fiction would be the time travel episodes of Lost and he had zero influence on them. They were conceived of/written by Damon Lindelof and Calrton Cuse

He is from the Spielberg/Lucas school of thought regarding the genre which is PERFECT for Star Wars Episode VII but entirely wrong for Star Trek. My two pence.
There's also Fringe, which is an actual science fiction show. As in fiction that deals with science. It features time travel, alternate universes, alternate timelines, cloning, genetic engineering and possibly the best "mad scientist" character ever featured in any media. Does that count as "real science fiction" to you or does it need space ships and laser guns going zap?

You should also look into what actually is covered in the realm of science fiction. Because Super-8 involves an alien and Cloverfield has a monster from the ocean in it. Both of which would traditionally count as science fiction since it is presented as vaguely possible instead of magical. Star Wars is in the vague area of science fantasy.
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Old March 28 2013, 03:21 AM   #49
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Re: Has star trek changed

Harvey wrote: View Post
"Gene's Vision" has been an effective marketing strategy for the franchise since the seventies, but as many others have posted, it doesn't have much concrete meaning because it (a) exaggerates Roddenberry's status as a "visionary," (b) gives him credit for the creations of others, and (c) has been constantly revised to sell whatever the latest product happens to be.
No doubt the phrase has and (to an extent) will continue to be effective as a marketing tool, but I also find—on message boards such as this—that its utterance may signal the onset of a load of sanctimonious claptrap in the form of mantras like:
"_____ is a slap to the face of _____" or
"_____ would have _____ spinning in his grave" or
"no True Fan of Trek™ would ever accept ______."
"Gene Roddenberry's Vision™" is too often invoked as if it conveyed instant legitimacy upon the maker of any solemn or zealous pronouncements which follow, when all they usually are is just so much hot air standing in for "It's not what I would have preferred to see."
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Old March 28 2013, 03:28 AM   #50
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Re: Has star trek changed

Didn't Gene want to do a movie where the crew goes back in time, accidentally stops the Kennedy assassination, feature Spock and JFK having a philosophical discussion and then have Spock kill Kennedy from the grassy knoll to preserve the timeline?

I'm pretty sure that "Gene's Vision" also involved the walls melting and being able to taste colors at that point.

Also I'm aware that Red Dwarf did the same thing as comedy.
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Old March 28 2013, 03:56 AM   #51
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Re: Has star trek changed

Awesome Possum wrote: View Post
Also I'm aware that Red Dwarf did the same thing as comedy.
I read the first part of your post and thought "Oh I've gotta tell this guy about that Red Dwarf episode" and then got to the last bit.
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Old March 28 2013, 03:58 AM   #52
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Re: Has star trek changed

I don't know what Gene was on when he wrote that, but I wouldn't mind trying it.
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Old March 28 2013, 05:21 AM   #53
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Re: Has star trek changed

I think what I miss from Gene Roddenberry was the "futurist" aspect he contributed to Star Trek. Gene didn't appear to be a very good writer and came up with some kooky stories, but he did have some really cool futurist ideas that made into it Trek. Some ideas were too futurist for 20th century/early 21st century audiences, but plenty others made it into TOS and TNG and I'm all the grateful for it. I also liked how he tried to distance away from the TOS style and TOS aliens when doing TNG, again Gene wasn't a total loon, I think he was a pretty good TV pitchman and futurist, just not a very good writer/storyteller. But as others have repeatedly said, there really is no such thing as "Gene's vision" for Trek, other then something to energize the fanbase in the 1970s and early 80s.
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Old March 28 2013, 05:43 AM   #54
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Re: Has star trek changed

Joby wrote: View Post
I think what I miss from Gene Roddenberry was the "futurist" aspect he contributed to Star Trek. Gene didn't appear to be a very good writer and came up with some kooky stories, but he did have some really cool futurist ideas that made into it Trek. Some ideas were too futurist for 20th century/early 21st century audiences, but plenty others made it into TOS and TNG and I'm all the grateful for it. I also liked how he tried to distance away from the TOS style and TOS aliens when doing TNG, again Gene wasn't a total loon, I think he was a pretty good TV pitchman and futurist, just not a very good writer/storyteller. But as others have repeatedly said, there really is no such thing as "Gene's vision" for Trek, other then something to energize the fanbase in the 1970s and early 80s.
Which cool futurist ideas were those?
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Old March 28 2013, 09:07 AM   #55
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Re: Has star trek changed

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Joby wrote: View Post
I think what I miss from Gene Roddenberry was the "futurist" aspect he contributed to Star Trek. Gene didn't appear to be a very good writer and came up with some kooky stories, but he did have some really cool futurist ideas that made into it Trek. Some ideas were too futurist for 20th century/early 21st century audiences, but plenty others made it into TOS and TNG and I'm all the grateful for it. I also liked how he tried to distance away from the TOS style and TOS aliens when doing TNG, again Gene wasn't a total loon, I think he was a pretty good TV pitchman and futurist, just not a very good writer/storyteller. But as others have repeatedly said, there really is no such thing as "Gene's vision" for Trek, other then something to energize the fanbase in the 1970s and early 80s.
Which cool futurist ideas were those?
That James T. Kirk is named after his Mother's love instructor?

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Old March 28 2013, 01:28 PM   #56
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Re: Has star trek changed

The only person who truly knew Gene's vision was his Optometrist.
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Old March 28 2013, 01:33 PM   #57
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Re: Has star trek changed

JoeZhang wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Joby wrote: View Post
I think what I miss from Gene Roddenberry was the "futurist" aspect he contributed to Star Trek. Gene didn't appear to be a very good writer and came up with some kooky stories, but he did have some really cool futurist ideas that made into it Trek. Some ideas were too futurist for 20th century/early 21st century audiences, but plenty others made it into TOS and TNG and I'm all the grateful for it. I also liked how he tried to distance away from the TOS style and TOS aliens when doing TNG, again Gene wasn't a total loon, I think he was a pretty good TV pitchman and futurist, just not a very good writer/storyteller. But as others have repeatedly said, there really is no such thing as "Gene's vision" for Trek, other then something to energize the fanbase in the 1970s and early 80s.
Which cool futurist ideas were those?
That James T. Kirk is named after his Mother's love instructor?

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Old March 28 2013, 01:35 PM   #58
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Re: Has star trek changed

J. Allen wrote: View Post
The only person who truly knew Gene's vision was his Optometrist.
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Old March 28 2013, 01:46 PM   #59
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Re: Has star trek changed

GR's biggest successes were in looking for A. ways to make a buck, B. hot chicks to mount, and C. both A. and B.

If he started believing his own hype, well, he apparently had lots of company.
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Old March 28 2013, 02:18 PM   #60
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Re: Has star trek changed

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Which cool futurist ideas were those?
I'll bite: the idea that technology would eliminate the need to work for money.

Of course, he didn't think that through in terms of how it would be likely to affect everything that people do. He may well have simply lifted it from his friend Arthur C. Clarke, who used it in a number of stories.
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