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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old March 26 2013, 10:47 PM   #76
Therin of Andor
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Re: How much time passes between TMP and TWoK?

golddragon71 wrote: View Post
The thing that threw me was when Harry Morrow said
"Jim! The Enterprise is 20 Years old! We feel her day is over."
The script synopsis in "Starlog"'s movie special says "40 years". The line was changed at the last minute.
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Old March 26 2013, 10:50 PM   #77
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Re: How much time passes between TMP and TWoK?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
"Jaws 2" is another early example of a numbered sequel, although they went with an Arabic numeral.
I saw a great review one time that said they were saving the "II" for the eleventh movie.
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Old March 27 2013, 12:31 AM   #78
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Re: How much time passes between TMP and TWoK?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
golddragon71 wrote: View Post
The thing that threw me was when Harry Morrow said
"Jim! The Enterprise is 20 Years old! We feel her day is over."
The script synopsis in Starlog's movie special says "40 years". The line was changed at the last minute.
Really? What a shame that was changed! Any idea why? I suppose they might have been worried that the broader audience would have been confused by it, whereas 20 years pretty much comfortably encompasses only what we got to see on screen in TOS and the previous movies.

One of the things which I always loved about Roddenberry's original pitch was that even in the sixties he always saw the Enterprise as having been a ship with an unseen history. He had never intended for it to be a 'new' starship even at the start.
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Old March 27 2013, 01:00 AM   #79
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Re: How much time passes between TMP and TWoK?

It used to be very difficult for me to get non-fans to take Trek movies seriously as people used to equate excessive numbering of sequels to bad money-grabs like Rocky or Police Academy. Was sure glad they finally stopped with the TNG films.
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Old March 27 2013, 03:17 AM   #80
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Re: How much time passes between TMP and TWoK?

arch101 wrote: View Post
It used to be very difficult for me to get non-fans to take Trek movies seriously as people used to equate excessive numbering of sequels to bad money-grabs like Rocky or Police Academy. Was sure glad they finally stopped with the TNG films.
I see what you did there
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Old March 27 2013, 09:05 AM   #81
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Re: How much time passes between TMP and TWoK?

Lance wrote: View Post
Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
golddragon71 wrote: View Post
The thing that threw me was when Harry Morrow said
"Jim! The Enterprise is 20 Years old! We feel her day is over."
The script synopsis in Starlog's movie special says "40 years". The line was changed at the last minute.
Really? What a shame that was changed! Any idea why? I suppose they might have been worried that the broader audience would have been confused by it, whereas 20 years pretty much comfortably encompasses only what we got to see on screen in TOS and the previous movies.
That's pretty much it.
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Old March 27 2013, 12:54 PM   #82
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Re: How much time passes between TMP and TWoK?

If he said "you've been captain of Enterprise for 20 years" instead of it's 20 years old, but that opens up other problems, but it would have been better with the facts.

I wonder if Starfleet wanted to preserve Enterpise in the museum before it got shot up any worse and that's why they wanted to keep it. Of course that's pure conjecture on my part.

Or pure speculation, like Mr Hengist might say.
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Old March 27 2013, 07:06 PM   #83
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Re: How much time passes between TMP and TWoK?

Another way to look at / consider the matter:

TMP takes place near stardate 7410.2

TWOK takes place near stardate 8130.3

If the system is anything like it was in TNG/DS9/Voyager, wherein the first two numbers of the stardate denote the year, then there's roughly seven years between the two films.
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Old March 27 2013, 08:13 PM   #84
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Re: How much time passes between TMP and TWoK?

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
If it only wasn't for that bottle of Romulan Ale dated 2283...
I didn't read this entire thread, so forgive me if this was already mentioned. It's more likely the bottle has a stardate, and not an Earth date. So, SD-2283 would put it well into early TOS (I realize the stardates were screwed up then, but when are they not?).

So, the Roluman ale is probably aged at least 15-20 years, which would support McCoy's statement.
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Old March 27 2013, 08:40 PM   #85
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Re: How much time passes between TMP and TWoK?

For an ale to age for even a full year would be exceptional today. Supposedly, the Romulan drink ferments for an exceptionally long time and for that reason is so intoxicating. But any Earthling reading a date off a bottle of ale today and seeing a year different from the current one would be justly disgusted, feeling that the bottle has been ruined. It wouldn't require a decade, just the simple fact of it not being the current year.

Sure, ale may be preserved for a long time once bottled, but the quality is not supposed to improve with time, except for special brands (or so the marketers of those brands try to claim). Then again, if the Romulan stuff has been fermented to have something like 15-20% alcohol content, its odds of surviving storage also go up significantly...

As for the stardates, if a TNG-style thousand-dates-equal-a-year system is assumed, then obviously we are missing a fifth digit that would denote decades. It would be easy to assume that ST2 takes place a decade or more probably two after TOS, meaning a movie SD 8130 comes 12 or 22 years after a TOS SD 6130.

OTOH, the stardate of ST:TMP, SD 7140, cannot be from the same decade as the stardates of TOS, because the interval between this and the highest TOS stardate (SD 5943.7 from "All Our Yesterdays") is less than the required 2500 units that Kirk has been holding a desk job. So it would seem that TMP takes place eleven years after "All Our Yesterdays"... Which is a very good fit, actually, allowing for the aging of the characters, for all the promotions, for all the technological changes and so forth - and for the fact that more than 300 years have passed since the launch of Voyager Six. Heck, TMP will then take place in 2279, which matches the "300 years after airdate" model that was in all probability highly influential in making the writers decide that it had been more than 300 years since the launch of the Voyager program that in reality got off the ground in 1977.

Taking the model to its conclusion would put ST2 in the very next year, though, or then eleven years in the future - and while 2290 is a possibility for ST2 in some respects (including the subsequent progression of movies, culminating in the solidly established 2293 for ST6), it makes it almost impossible to reconcile with the "15 years ago" or "20 years old" references in there.

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Old March 27 2013, 10:06 PM   #86
C.E. Evans
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Re: How much time passes between TMP and TWoK?

WarpFactorZ wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
If it only wasn't for that bottle of Romulan Ale dated 2283...
I didn't read this entire thread, so forgive me if this was already mentioned. It's more likely the bottle has a stardate, and not an Earth date. So, SD-2283 would put it well into early TOS (I realize the stardates were screwed up then, but when are they not?).

So, the Roluman ale is probably aged at least 15-20 years, which would support McCoy's statement.
Hmm, not really a fan of that idea at all, unfortunately. I think the simplest and likeliest explanation was that "2283" was the Earth year that ale was bottled. As Timo mentioned, even a single year would be enough aging time for a pretty potent ale. Two years would be probably be enough for even just a small sip to clear Kirk's sinuses.
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Old March 27 2013, 11:41 PM   #87
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Re: How much time passes between TMP and TWoK?

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Hmm, not really a fan of that idea at all, unfortunately. I think the simplest and likeliest explanation was that "2283" was the Earth year that ale was bottled. As Timo mentioned, even a single year would be enough aging time for a pretty potent ale. Two years would be probably be enough for even just a small sip to clear Kirk's sinuses.
This assumes that Romulan ale is really "ale" as we understand it. Maybe "ale" is just a catch name. Maybe it's not even alcohol.
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Old March 28 2013, 12:53 AM   #88
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Re: How much time passes between TMP and TWoK?

WarpFactorZ wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Hmm, not really a fan of that idea at all, unfortunately. I think the simplest and likeliest explanation was that "2283" was the Earth year that ale was bottled. As Timo mentioned, even a single year would be enough aging time for a pretty potent ale. Two years would be probably be enough for even just a small sip to clear Kirk's sinuses.
This assumes that Romulan ale is really "ale" as we understand it. Maybe "ale" is just a catch name. Maybe it's not even alcohol.
Romulan juice?

Forget aging, that thing probably is past its expiration date.
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Old March 28 2013, 03:52 PM   #89
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Re: How much time passes between TMP and TWoK?

Romulan Slurm?
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Old September 15 2013, 05:59 PM   #90
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Re: How much time passes between TMP and TWoK?

I'm sorry to zombie this thread, but I thought it'd be better than starting a new one.

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I do agree that:

Space Seed: 2267
TMP: 2273
TWOK: 2285

...makes the most sense to me. If we put "Space Seed" 300 years ahead of the year of production, then that puts TWOK around 2282 if we stick straight to "fifteen years." With the bottle of Romulan ale, it has to be at least 2283, and even 2283 would make Kirk and McCoy's exchange mostly ironic. The 2285 year for TWOK has the virtue of allowing the ale a couple of extraordinary years to age, and makes Morrow's "20 years" line in TSFS make sense, too, in the context of "you started commanding the Enterprise 20 years ago," and jives with the apparent, original "40 years" line.

However, what do we know about the rest of the classic films? TSFS and TVH must take place in short order after TWOK, probably comprising the rest of 2285 and part of 2286. TSFS's opening Captain's long doesn't exactly make clear how much time had passed after TWOK, but long enough for the cadets to transfer off and the Grissom to head to Genesis, as well as for Valkris to go try to find data on Genesis. Then, Kirks' log in TVH explicitly tells us the crew had been in Vulcan exile for three months. I take this fairly literally, meaning it has been three months since they arrived on the planet during TSFS. TFF seems to take place a bit longer after TVH, but not by much, possibly placing it in late 2286 or early 2287.

For what it's worth, examining stardates, it appears about 100 stardate units passed between TWOK and TSFS, TSFS and TVH, and TVH and TFF. So maybe each movie was about three months apart?

Then we skip ahead to 2293 for TUC. But why 2293? What exactly, explicitly, makes it 2293? Sulu states he'd commanded Excelsior for three years, which, if TFF is in 2287, could make it as early as 2290. The stardates jump from 8454.1 in TFF to 9521.6 in TUC. That's a difference of 1067.5 units.

If 100 units corresponds to about three months... then that's about 32 months, or just over two and a half years, which is a bit less than Sulu stated, unless he was rounding up.

I think the only other direct chronological reference to the events in TUC is from "Flashback" wherein I believe Tuvok calls them 80 years ago, based I'm sure on the Okudachron.

Something interesting I noticed in TSFS. When Kirk asks Scotty about his progress near the beginning, Scotty says "You'll be fully automated by the time we dock," which garners Kirk's barn door remark. It's never dawned on me until now exactly what Scotty was doing here: he wasn't still fixing battle damage, he was automating the ship to run without all the cadets that the Enteprise off-loaded between movies. It never occurred to me that when they steal the Enterprise later, they had already done a chunk of the work to do it at the beginning of the movie.
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