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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old March 26 2013, 07:44 PM   #61
FFunctionalData
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Re: Cause and Effect

Loved this ep.

I just do not understand how the doctor was able to hear voices. It would have made more sense if it happened to Troi.
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Old March 26 2013, 09:05 PM   #62
yousirname
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Re: Cause and Effect

I don't understand how Data's suggestion could even work at all. The air being forced out of the airlock is not pushing against anything; it's moving into hard vacuum, right? So it's not the same as (for example) a blown-up balloon that you release without tying, where the air escaping has other air to press against.

Seems to me that if anything, as long as the hatch through which the air is escaping is narrower than the chamber it's escaping from, the air would actually drag the Enterprise with it a little bit, no?

Maybe I'm missing some basic principle of physics.
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Old March 26 2013, 09:56 PM   #63
Trekker4747
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Re: Cause and Effect

FFunctionalData wrote: View Post
Loved this ep.

I just do not understand how the doctor was able to hear voices. It would have made more sense if it happened to Troi.
The voices were a physical manifestation -they were actually there, not in Crusher's head. Geordi says sensors had picked something up and other crewmen reported a problem too. It was initially assumed to be a problem in the Com System. Crusher's room just happened to be in the right place and time for her to hear -and later record- the voices.
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Old March 26 2013, 09:58 PM   #64
Mojochi
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Re: Cause and Effect

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
FFunctionalData wrote: View Post
Loved this ep.

I just do not understand how the doctor was able to hear voices. It would have made more sense if it happened to Troi.
The voices were a physical manifestation -they were actually there, not in Crusher's head. Geordi says sensors had picked something up and other crewmen reported a problem too. It was initially assumed to be a problem in the Com System. Crusher's room just happened to be in the right place and time for her to hear -and later record- the voices.
Geordi also has an effect he calls blurry after images in his visor. It's what initially made him dizzy. It's made out that they are both some kind of echos from previous loops
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Old March 26 2013, 11:07 PM   #65
Mysterion
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Re: Cause and Effect

Good episode the first time, does not (for me at least) hold up to repated viewing.

Kelsey Grammer was a nice surprise at the end, and wish we'd seen Capt. Bateson show up on-screen again at some point.
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Old March 27 2013, 05:15 AM   #66
T'Girl
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Re: Cause and Effect

yousirname wrote: View Post
I don't understand how Data's suggestion could even work at all. The air being forced out of the airlock is not pushing against anything; it's moving into hard vacuum, right? So it's not the same as (for example) a blown-up balloon that you release without tying, where the air escaping has other air to press against.
Newton's third law of motion.The Enterprise is expelling matter aft, this is where the propulsion forward is coming from.

I'm not exactly sure what the dimensions of the main shuttle bay door is, but assuming that there is sea level pressure in the flight deck, initially there would be over six thousand tons of force.

The air being expelled from a balloon doesn't push against the air in the room moving the balloon forward. The reaction force is pushing against the "inside top" of the balloon, as the air exits the "bottom," this moves the balloon forward.




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Old March 27 2013, 10:26 AM   #67
yousirname
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Re: Cause and Effect

Well, fair enough.
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Old March 27 2013, 10:52 AM   #68
Trekker4747
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Re: Cause and Effect

And six-thousand tons of force is nowhere near enough force to move an object that weighs millions of tons.
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Old March 27 2013, 12:08 PM   #69
T'Girl
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Re: Cause and Effect

^ Consider how much push force you can product through the palms of your hands, for many people it's only about a hundred pounds. But this is enough to move a multi-tonne vehicle across a flat surface.

The force generated by exhausting the flight deck was probably similar to the Enterprise's maneuvering thrusters.

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Old March 27 2013, 12:44 PM   #70
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Re: Cause and Effect

T'Girl wrote: View Post
yousirname wrote: View Post
I don't understand how Data's suggestion could even work at all. The air being forced out of the airlock is not pushing against anything; it's moving into hard vacuum, right? So it's not the same as (for example) a blown-up balloon that you release without tying, where the air escaping has other air to press against.
Newton's third law of motion.The Enterprise is expelling matter aft, this is where the propulsion forward is coming from.

I'm not exactly sure what the dimensions of the main shuttle bay door is, but assuming that there is sea level pressure in the flight deck, initially there would be over six thousand tons of force.

The air being expelled from a balloon doesn't push against the air in the room moving the balloon forward. The reaction force is pushing against the "inside top" of the balloon, as the air exits the "bottom," this moves the balloon forward.




Essentially, a rocket without the fire.

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
And six-thousand tons of force is nowhere near enough force to move an object that weighs millions of tons.
Well, not with the speed that we saw in the episode. It looked like they jumped to impulse when the blew the shuttlebay. I think they would've crept away.
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Old March 27 2013, 01:08 PM   #71
Photoman15
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Re: Cause and Effect

First, didn't the expulsion push against the other ship? Second, in space the ship weighs nothing.
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Old March 27 2013, 01:43 PM   #72
yousirname
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Re: Cause and Effect

'Weight' is the force exerted on a body by gravity and is not relevant here.

Mass is constant regardless of gravitational environment.
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Old March 27 2013, 01:47 PM   #73
Shazam!
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Re: Cause and Effect

Like putting too much air in a balloon!
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Old March 27 2013, 02:17 PM   #74
Tiberius
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Re: Cause and Effect

Photoman15 wrote: View Post
Second, in space the ship weighs nothing.
I call troll.

We went over this with you in August last year.

LINK
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Old March 27 2013, 07:12 PM   #75
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Cause and Effect

It's possible the other ship's window of time wasn't large enough to put the pieces together. For all we know their loop was only a few minutes long.

What I don't get is why they didn't do something like this:

Randomly select whether to go forward or go back in a way based on background radiation or something so you can guarantee it would come back with a different result each loop.

This decision may not get you out of it this loop, but it is guaranteed to save you in the next *few* loops.

I second Timescape as the infinitely rewatchable episode. Picard drawing the smiley face in the warp core breach was awesome.

Of course, if the ship is one kilometer long and the breach would envelop the ship in six hours, the breach should have been noticeably moving.
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