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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old March 26 2013, 01:31 PM   #16
Jono
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Re: Could the Dominion War have been avoided?

Nagisa Furukawa wrote: View Post
How has no one mentioned The Visitor?! In that, we're explicitly shown a timeline where if Sisko were to disappear circa Series 4, the Dominion War never happened up and Jadzia was still alive by the time Jake was an old man.
At best you can say the Jadzia gets to live a long life, but given how restrictive our view into the timeline we can't be sure that there wasn't a Dominion War or two or even three given that there was what 50 - 60 years of that timeline.
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Old March 26 2013, 01:43 PM   #17
Use of Time
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Re: Could the Dominion War have been avoided?

The only way I think the Federation prevents war from the Dominion is by unifying the powers of the Alpha/Beta Quadrant prior to the conflict instead of during it. Obviously this is easier said than done given the nature of distrusting species like the Romulans and a proud military state like Cardassia. I think a unified constant guard assigned to Deep Space Nine patrolling the vicinity of the wormhole could have deferred the war. Sustaining that unified effort would probably be unrealistic though.
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Old March 26 2013, 02:33 PM   #18
Pavonis
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Re: Could the Dominion War have been avoided?

Nightdiamond wrote: View Post
It still seems kind of silly, though, how they left their side of the wormhole so lightly defended, even when they knew how aggressive Dominion was being.
The AQ terminus of the wormhole was far more highly defended than the GQ terminus, considering the far side of the wormhole opened up nowhere near Dominion space. Remember, it took a couple years for the Dominion to really notice the AQ traffic entering their neighborhood. It wasn't like the wormhole opened up in their backyard. The Dominion had no reason to bar traffic through the wormhole, since it wasn't in their territory.

Again, telling the Federation to stay on their side of the wormhole and out of the GQ would be like China telling the US to stay out of the Pacific - an unrealistic and unreasonable request meant to provoke and provide a cause for hostilities.
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Old March 26 2013, 03:19 PM   #19
Kelthaz
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Re: Could the Dominion War have been avoided?

No, not really. The writers were pretty adamant about having a war to spice up the show.
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Old March 26 2013, 05:17 PM   #20
Danger Ace
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Re: Could the Dominion War have been avoided?

hxclespaulplayer wrote: View Post
... Now, I'm sure that there's plenty of the alpha and beta quadrants that's unexplored, why not avoid the gamma quadrant altogether and avert hostilities? ....
I think you mis-remember (though correct me if I do). War was thrust upon the Federation and the Alpha quadrant. As the result of a stable wormhole the Gamma and Alpha quads became within reach of one another and it was the Changelings who, out of fear, ordered first strikes and started the war.

I am generally against unilateralism as either valid policy or explaination. It's on par with blaming the victim for being raped.
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Old March 26 2013, 05:19 PM   #21
Danger Ace
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Re: Could the Dominion War have been avoided?

Pavonis wrote: View Post
Nightdiamond wrote: View Post
It still seems kind of silly, though, how they left their side of the wormhole so lightly defended, even when they knew how aggressive Dominion was being.
The AQ terminus of the wormhole was far more highly defended than the GQ terminus, considering the far side of the wormhole opened up nowhere near Dominion space. Remember, it took a couple years for the Dominion to really notice the AQ traffic entering their neighborhood. It wasn't like the wormhole opened up in their backyard. The Dominion had no reason to bar traffic through the wormhole, since it wasn't in their territory.

Again, telling the Federation to stay on their side of the wormhole and out of the GQ would be like China telling the US to stay out of the Pacific - an unrealistic and unreasonable request meant to provoke and provide a cause for hostilities.
Perfectly said. I agree.
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Old March 26 2013, 11:37 PM   #22
Pondwater
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Re: Could the Dominion War have been avoided?

The position of the Wormhole just accelerated the process. The Dominion War was bound to happen, Just like the encounter with the Borg.
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Old March 26 2013, 11:47 PM   #23
at Quark's
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Re: Could the Dominion War have been avoided?

Do we actually know for a fact the far side of the wormhole didn't open up in Dominion territory (i.e. do we have a direct canon reference for that )? As far as I know, the area might have been an unregarded backyard of the dominion with an extremely tenuous Dominion presence ...
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Old March 26 2013, 11:48 PM   #24
Sci
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Re: Could the Dominion War have been avoided?

The Dominion War could have been avoided if the Founders had decided to abandon their imperialist foreign policy.

at Quark's wrote: View Post
Do we actually know for a fact the far side of the wormhole didn't open up in Dominion territory (i.e. do we have a direct canon reference for that )? As far as I know, the area might have been an unregarded backyard of the dominion with an extremely tenuous Dominion presence ...
There are numerous references to the Defiant setting a course for "Dominion space" or being far away from "Dominion space" when visiting the Gamma Quadrant, and there is no indication that the Dominion ever claimed the GQ terminus of the Wormhole as its territory.
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Old March 26 2013, 11:58 PM   #25
at Quark's
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Re: Could the Dominion War have been avoided?

Sci wrote: View Post

There are numerous references to the Defiant setting a course for "Dominion space" or being far away from "Dominion space" when visiting the Gamma Quadrant, and there is no indication that the Dominion ever claimed the GQ terminus of the Wormhole as its territory.
Ah, thank you. However, 'setting course for dominion space' could still be interpreted as 'set course for a major Dominion presence hub as to get into contact with some dominion representatives / get their attention quickly'.
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Old March 27 2013, 01:38 AM   #26
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Re: Could the Dominion War have been avoided?

There was no real way to prevent the war, beyond the attempt to destroy the wormhole. The Dominion was making aggressive moves against Alpha Quadrant powers from the very start of Gamma Quadrant exploration. Making first contact through giving a list of ships your empire destroyed is not a good start, at all. The war was guaranteed the moment the Dominion got a foothold in Alpha Quadrant space.
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Old March 27 2013, 02:57 AM   #27
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Re: Could the Dominion War have been avoided?

Pavonis wrote: View Post
Nightdiamond wrote: View Post
It still seems kind of silly, though, how they left their side of the wormhole so lightly defended, even when they knew how aggressive Dominion was being.
The AQ terminus of the wormhole was far more highly defended than the GQ terminus, considering the far side of the wormhole opened up nowhere near Dominion space. Remember, it took a couple years for the Dominion to really notice the AQ traffic entering their neighborhood. It wasn't like the wormhole opened up in their backyard. The Dominion had no reason to bar traffic through the wormhole, since it wasn't in their territory.

Again, telling the Federation to stay on their side of the wormhole and out of the GQ would be like China telling the US to stay out of the Pacific - an unrealistic and unreasonable request meant to provoke and provide a cause for hostilities.
There is no such thing as a perfect situation in life.

By traversing the Gamma Quadrant, the Dominion simply got madder and madder. Look, not everybody is rational, and not everybody even holds the same concept of rationality. The Dominion detested solids, and to them annihilating any solid in their domain/sphere of influence is rational.

Besides, to use your China example, I think not going to the Yellow Sea or Sea of China in a state of cold war makes absolute sense.
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Old March 27 2013, 03:09 AM   #28
Pavonis
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Re: Could the Dominion War have been avoided?

I wasn't raising China as an example to discuss real politics, but the point is that there is such a thing as international water, and claiming international water doesn't mean everyone else is obliged to recognize that claim. The Dominion can claim the entire Gamma Quadrant if they want, but they can't realistically enforce the claim. Backing down in the face of irrationality isn't a good way to peacefully coexist. The Dominion, given an inch, would happily take a mile. "A simple threat keeps them out of our side of the anomaly; what can we accomplish with force?"
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Old March 27 2013, 03:36 AM   #29
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Re: Could the Dominion War have been avoided?

Sci wrote: View Post
There are numerous references to the Defiant setting a course for "Dominion space" or being far away from "Dominion space" when visiting the Gamma Quadrant, and there is no indication that the Dominion ever claimed the GQ terminus of the Wormhole as its territory.
The wormhole that opened in the GQ side definitely wasn't in Dominion space, but you can be damn sure they eventually claimed it for themselves when they learned of the wormhole's existence. It was too important not to claim, especially since we know they took what they wanted.
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Old March 27 2013, 05:00 AM   #30
indolover
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Re: Could the Dominion War have been avoided?

Pavonis wrote: View Post
I wasn't raising China as an example to discuss real politics, but the point is that there is such a thing as international water, and claiming international water doesn't mean everyone else is obliged to recognize that claim. The Dominion can claim the entire Gamma Quadrant if they want, but they can't realistically enforce the claim. Backing down in the face of irrationality isn't a good way to peacefully coexist. The Dominion, given an inch, would happily take a mile. "A simple threat keeps them out of our side of the anomaly; what can we accomplish with force?"
And yet as the Founders felt hating all solids was rational entering the Gamma Quadrant would inflame more tensions. They may take that as flagrant dismissal of their point and get more brazen.

Either way, the war still IMO was inevitable, and any reasoning with the Dominion would have been futile.
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