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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old March 25 2013, 11:35 PM   #1
Shilliam Watner
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The Genesis Torpedo Should Have Tipped Over When Reliant Was Blasted

At the end when the Enterprise sneaks up behind Reliant in the Mutara Nebula and opens fire on her blasting the photon torpedo launcher and blowing her port nacelle off, the visible shaking of the ship was apparent. But when Khan a few moments later activates the Genesis Torpedo, it's standing upright on the transporter pad. Apparently it had been there all along since they beamed it out of the Genesis cave. Prior to the final assault on the Reliant, the device should have tipped over due to all the shaking and vibrations from the phaser blasts hitting the bridge and blowing out the impulse engine blue dome. It also should have tipped over when they entered the nebula because the crew members, especially one, lost his balance and fell into Khan. Don't you agree?

Last edited by Shilliam Watner; March 26 2013 at 12:04 AM.
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Old March 25 2013, 11:37 PM   #2
anh165
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Re: The Genesis Torpedo Should Have Tipped Over When Reliant Was Blast

It was a good movie, dont rock the boat.
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Old March 25 2013, 11:40 PM   #3
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: The Genesis Torpedo Should Have Tipped Over When Reliant Was Blast

It had proto-matter powered inertial dampeners. It didn't feel a thing
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Old March 25 2013, 11:55 PM   #4
Shawnster
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Re: The Genesis Torpedo Should Have Tipped Over When Reliant Was Blast

Bottom heavy. Lower center of gravity.
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Old March 26 2013, 12:05 AM   #5
Shilliam Watner
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Re: The Genesis Torpedo Should Have Tipped Over When Reliant Was Blast

anh165 wrote: View Post
It was a good movie, dont rock the boat.
LOL........just trying to get logical scientific answers as to why it didn't tip over.
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Old March 26 2013, 01:01 AM   #6
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Re: The Genesis Torpedo Should Have Tipped Over When Reliant Was Blast

Every time I see that scene, I swear Khan's about to go off on that guy that almost fell into him. I always imagine that after the scene cuts back to the exterior view, Khan busts out with "How dare you touch me!" You can see it in the look on his face, watch.
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Old March 26 2013, 10:03 AM   #7
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Re: The Genesis Torpedo Should Have Tipped Over When Reliant Was Blast

Easy. Khan's baby held it up! Big rattle for a super baby!


Khan's baby by Therin of Andor, on Flickr
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Old March 26 2013, 10:14 AM   #8
Timo
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Re: The Genesis Torpedo Should Have Tipped Over When Reliant Was Blast

One intriguing characteristic of "inertial damping" aboard starships we witness a lot in TOS and the later shows is that even if one part of the ship shakes, not every part needs to.

This makes a weird sort of sense. The damping is supposedly achieved by projecting some sort of a stabilizing field, and we have seen that artificial gravity fields are specific to individual rooms. Just because the field on Main Bridge is getting a punishment doesn't mean that the field on Sickbay would fail to a similar degree and leave McCoy with a floor covered in broken glass, or that the field on Transporter Room Four would let the Genesis Device tip over.

Another possible explanation for the fact that bottles never fall from tables even when Ensigns fly across the Bridge is that certain horizontal surfaces, shelves etc. have their own low-level gripping fields. Enough to stop a 1.1 kg bottle, nowhere near enough to hold still a 100 kg Security goon. Naturally, the Genesis Device would have such a gripper of its own, increasing the efficacy and providing stability even in demanding conditions.

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Old March 26 2013, 01:38 PM   #9
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Re: The Genesis Torpedo Should Have Tipped Over When Reliant Was Blast

Shilliam Watner wrote: View Post
At the end when the Enterprise sneaks up behind Reliant in the Mutara Nebula and opens fire on her blasting the photon torpedo launcher and blowing her port nacelle off, the visible shaking of the ship was apparent. But when Khan a few moments later activates the Genesis Torpedo, it's standing upright on the transporter pad. Apparently it had been there all along since they beamed it out of the Genesis cave. Prior to the final assault on the Reliant, the device should have tipped over due to all the shaking and vibrations from the phaser blasts hitting the bridge and blowing out the impulse engine blue dome. It also should have tipped over when they entered the nebula because the crew members, especially one, lost his balance and fell into Khan. Don't you agree?
There it is. We've officially hit rock bottom on "things that demand an explanation" in Star Trek.
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Old March 26 2013, 03:46 PM   #10
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Re: The Genesis Torpedo Should Have Tipped Over When Reliant Was Blast

Timo wrote: View Post
One intriguing characteristic of "inertial damping" aboard starships we witness a lot in TOS and the later shows is that even if one part of the ship shakes, not every part needs to.

This makes a weird sort of sense. The damping is supposedly achieved by projecting some sort of a stabilizing field, and we have seen that artificial gravity fields are specific to individual rooms. Just because the field on Main Bridge is getting a punishment doesn't mean that the field on Sickbay would fail to a similar degree and leave McCoy with a floor covered in broken glass, or that the field on Transporter Room Four would let the Genesis Device tip over.

Timo Saloniemi
While keeping those on the bridge in place is important, you can make an argument that Sickbay, Engineering, and the Transporter Rooms would take priority. Sickbay, as you explained, is important, since being rocked about might mean the difference between saving a patient and killing them. Engineering, also, is someplace a slight bump could create catastrophic consequences. And, if the transporter room is needed while the ship is being attacked (assuming, somehow, the ship is being fired upon and the shields are down, at least enough to transport), since someone falling off of the pad would be disastrous, as well.

anh165 wrote: View Post
It was a good movie, dont rock the boat.
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Old March 26 2013, 04:06 PM   #11
Timo
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Re: The Genesis Torpedo Should Have Tipped Over When Reliant Was Blast

While keeping those on the bridge in place is important, you can make an argument that Sickbay, Engineering, and the Transporter Rooms would take priority.
Or it could be argued that the damper fields are more effective deep inside the ship, for one of two subtly different reasons:

- radiation or whatnot from the weapons hit won't reach them so easily, as the hit happens at the outer hull, proximal to Bridge but distant from Sickbay; that is, the damage to the field is diluted by distance
- deeper inside the hull, the fields benefit from the buffering of other fields between them and the weapons hit; that is, the shaking is diluted by the multiple fields, even if no field gets damaged more than another

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Old March 26 2013, 07:15 PM   #12
Marsden
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Re: The Genesis Torpedo Should Have Tipped Over When Reliant Was Blast

Shawnster wrote: View Post
Bottom heavy. Lower center of gravity.

Really, I think that thing weighs about 100 tons. It's probably sinking into the pad it weighs so much. You don't actually see anybody lifting it, it's too heavy to move, they have a whole planet packed in there. And it's own sun, too. That's heavy duty.

Last edited by Marsden; March 27 2013 at 12:58 PM.
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Old March 27 2013, 01:49 AM   #13
Melakon
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Re: The Genesis Torpedo Should Have Tipped Over When Reliant Was Blast

Shilliam Watner wrote: View Post
Don't you agree?
No.

A Genesis Device is not the same thing as a genetically superior person with a poor sense of balance.

I always assumed it was held in place on the transporter pad by those internal force fields that can be activated seemingly anywhere on a ship.

And as previously mentioned, its weight distribution could be a factor.
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Old March 28 2013, 03:55 AM   #14
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Re: The Genesis Torpedo Should Have Tipped Over When Reliant Was Blast

Well, in the second pilot episode of TOS, Gary Mitchell was unconscious but he was held in place standing on the transporter pad before he was beamed down to Delta Vega. Here is a picture of it. So I suppose Khan used the same feature/function of the transporter to hold the Genesis Torpedo in place as a precaution.


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Old March 28 2013, 10:33 PM   #15
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Re: The Genesis Torpedo Should Have Tipped Over When Reliant Was Blast

Navigator_NCC2120 wrote: View Post
Well, in the second pilot episode of TOS, Gary Mitchell was unconscious but he was held in place standing on the transporter pad before he was beamed down to Delta Vega. Here is a picture of it. So I suppose Khan used the same feature/function of the transporter to hold the Genesis Torpedo in place as a precaution.
Probably the best in-universe answer dating all the way to the beginning.
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