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Old March 25 2013, 03:13 PM   #1756
wissaboo
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

Why did Merle pack a phone in his kidnap kit?
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Old March 25 2013, 03:26 PM   #1757
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

wissaboo wrote: View Post
Why did Merle pack a phone in his kidnap kit?
My thought was that is where the copper wire came from to tie her up. But who knows really, maybe he was talking to ghosts as well.
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Old March 25 2013, 03:35 PM   #1758
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Shane was a self-interested, murderous demon, and could not change, but Merle--the racist, sexist, violent criminal turns a corner before the end, thus the stereotype was melting
Shane was not, as he went along, anything like a "good guy," but I don't think "murderous demon" is a fair characterization.

Every thing he did was because he thought that was how he needed to be in the post-apocalyptic, post Rick, world. And, sometimes, he was right (the walker barn for example).

He became a villain but he was still a somewhat sympathetic one.


Dorian Thompson wrote: View Post
Oh, Merle, Merle, Merle. We barely knew ye. I felt bad for Daryl, anyway. Seeing your big brother in that condition would rip your guts out. So to speak.
One of the best parts of that scene was that Daryl's reaction seemed as much about finally letting go and getting angry with his brother for the years of abuse.

He didn't "kill" zombie Merle silently or quickly like he did other walkers. He punched him repeatedly, threw him to the ground and repeatedly stabbed him in the face. His brother was one of the only zombies to whom he didn't show a form of mercy.
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Old March 25 2013, 04:19 PM   #1759
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

Vendikarr wrote: View Post
I thought Merle had some military experience. In an ambush situation, your intended target should be your first shot, so you don't give away your position before achieving your objective. Unless your position is secure and you can complete your mission despite your location being known. His location was far from secure, seeing as a walker managed to draw him out of hiding.

Of course I know this is TV and the villain has to stick around until the end of his arc. But it just made Merle look like a screw up instead of someone with military training.
I don't see it that way. He never expected the Governor to be on the front line when his plan went into motion. The Governor wasn't his intended target. Anyone he could eliminate was, as he knew he'd be storming the guard positions. His mission was to cut the Woodbury numbers to better Daryl's odds of survival. Plus, the very second he got lucky & saw The Gov. He took & scored the kill shot, but Ben stepped in the way at the very moment

He couldn't just sit around & wait for the Governor to show up, the assault was time sensitive, using the walkers as a temporary diversion, so he could shoot down combatants & in the chaos go unnoticed for a short time

I thought it was actually pretty smartly done given it was a suicide mission, & it almost worked. Only a tenth of a second from eliminating the Gov.

Frankly, the Woodbury lot are a pretty poor unit. Rick's group has the edge there, & from the look of the finale teaser, they are either gone, or are in hiding & possibly plan to fight with guerrilla tactics, which given the state of their group, is as good a plan as they can muster. It is after all THEIR turf
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Old March 25 2013, 04:21 PM   #1760
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

^ Yup, agreed. All things considered Merle did pretty good there at the end. And I totally missed until you all pointed it out that it was Ben who threw himself in front of the Gov.
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Old March 25 2013, 04:24 PM   #1761
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

the G-man wrote: View Post
TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Shane was a self-interested, murderous demon, and could not change, but Merle--the racist, sexist, violent criminal turns a corner before the end, thus the stereotype was melting
Shane was not, as he went along, anything like a "good guy," but I don't think "murderous demon" is a fair characterization.

Every thing he did was because he thought that was how he needed to be in the post-apocalyptic, post Rick, world. And, sometimes, he was right (the walker barn for example).

He became a villain but he was still a somewhat sympathetic one.


Dorian Thompson wrote: View Post
Oh, Merle, Merle, Merle. We barely knew ye. I felt bad for Daryl, anyway. Seeing your big brother in that condition would rip your guts out. So to speak.
One of the best parts of that scene was that Daryl's reaction seemed as much about finally letting go and getting angry with his brother for the years of abuse.

He didn't "kill" zombie Merle silently or quickly like he did other walkers. He punched him repeatedly, threw him to the ground and repeatedly stabbed him in the face. His brother was one of the only zombies to whom he didn't show a form of mercy.
I interpreted that at just anger at the whole zombie world thing. Like goddammit you havn't taken enough now my brother too?!
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Old March 25 2013, 04:33 PM   #1762
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

I don't think Merle abused Daryl. I think they were both abused by their father. Daryl looked up to his older brother as a protector, but Merle left Daryl alone with their father at the first chance he got. Daryl still didn't hate Merle, though. So I don't think Daryl was taking his anger out on Merle's walker. I think Daryl was just mad that Merle was dead.
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Old March 25 2013, 04:33 PM   #1763
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

I interpreted that at just anger at the whole zombie world thing. Like goddammit you havn't taken enough now my brother too?!
If he had then charged the other walkers I'd see that, but given his anger was directly specifically at zombie Merle, I took it differently. Either way, well done.

I don't think Merle abused Daryl. I think they were both abused by their father. Daryl looked up to his older brother as a protector, but Merle left Daryl alone with their father at the first chance he got. Daryl still didn't hate Merle, though. So I don't think Daryl was taking his anger out on Merle's walker.
Merle's treatment of Daryl was belittling and mentally abusive in every single scene they had together. I don't think he abused Daryl in a physical sense but in a mental one.
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Old March 25 2013, 04:45 PM   #1764
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

wissaboo wrote: View Post
I interpreted that at just anger at the whole zombie world thing. Like goddammit you havn't taken enough now my brother too?!
Perhaps some of that, but there was some personal angst in there too. I interpreted it as Daryl's angst that this is how it had to play out. At any time Merle going out like this could have been avoided were he to be less stubborn & wrongful. It just struck me as a "Why did it have to come to this, you stupid son of a bitch?" moment

Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
Oh yeah, I think that one walker had a skull made of M&M candy shell.
I suppose that should bother me, but really... it doesn't all that much. It's Sci-Fi, with a fantasy epidemic. It could all just be part of the zombification effects. I let it go mostly
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Old March 25 2013, 04:51 PM   #1765
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

the G-man wrote: View Post
TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Shane was a self-interested, murderous demon, and could not change, but Merle--the racist, sexist, violent criminal turns a corner before the end, thus the stereotype was melting
Shane was not, as he went along, anything like a "good guy," but I don't think "murderous demon" is a fair characterization.
It is fair. Not long after his childhood/best friend returns, he's aiming a rifle at him. Remember, they were nowhere near the season 2 level conflict at that point, but he considered murdering...his best friend.

Sounds like a murderous demon to me.

Let's not forget he murdered Otis by shooting him in the leg, to become walker dinner. I will not even entertain the notion that it was for the "greater good" of saving Carl. It was about his sick Lori obsession more than anything else.

No other member of the group would have shot Otis (based on how they were established up to that point).

He tried to kill Rick (attempt #2) at the school.

Then, there's Randall--murdered--and for what? To lure Rick out to the woods to kill him.

That's not surviving in the zombie world, as others (aside from the unhinged Governor) manage without plotting to kill at every turn. That is being a murderous demon.

And, sometimes, he was right (the walker barn for example).
No, that was not right. The zombies had been contained for some time, and never escaped. By opening the barn, and initiating the chaos to follow, Shane accomplished:

1. Sending Herschel to the bar, which leads to the entire Randall affair, including more conflict between Rick & Shane (triggered by Shane).

If Shane left the barn alone, it is arguable that the group would have been better prepared to deal with the coming walker herd, as they would have had all hands on deck, so to speak (not to mention more ammo), instead of being scattered in the woods, leading to desperate decision making (ex. Jimmy's failed rescue misison at the barn).

2. Carol was losing hope of ever seeing Sophia again, but thanks to Shane, her reunion was a devastating blow of gruesome finality. In short, he did not help matters.

Opening the barn accomplished nothing--other than giving Shane more self-made excuses to plot against his best friend.

The only choice for the survival of the group was to bring an end to Shane. Carol even comments on his poor leadership abilities (to Daryl) early in this season.

It says much that Merle--of all people--displayed mercy to Michonne..actually listened to her, when Shane only heard the brutal grunting between his ears.
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Old March 25 2013, 05:01 PM   #1766
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

I think it was clear Shane was fighting back murderous intent that 1st time he put Rick in his sights & Dale saw it

This whole show comes down to people who have something to live for & people who don't. Without Lori & Carl, Shane was a man with nothing left to live for. Without something to keep you going, sometimes the people end up like Shane or The Governor, reckless & dangerous

It's clear that Milton knew the Gov. when he was a different man, but now that he has nothing left, it's gone sour. The people who have nothing left must find something, the way Carol has, or they are surely doomed

Merle had nothing until Woodbury found him, & he devoted himself to being the worst he'd ever been in order to have it, until he realized Daryl was alive. That was a bigger hope for him, one he had more invested in than Woodbury, & that's why it played out as it did
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Old March 25 2013, 05:04 PM   #1767
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

Kestrel wrote: View Post
^ Yup, agreed. All things considered Merle did pretty good there at the end. And I totally missed until you all pointed it out that it was Ben who threw himself in front of the Gov.
Not threw himself so much as stupidly stumbled in front of him just as Merle fired.
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Old March 25 2013, 05:09 PM   #1768
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

How could Ben's action be "stupid"? He didn't know where Merle was shooting from, and stepping forward was no more "stupid" than stepping back. It was just a matter of luck - bad for Ben and Merle, good for the Governor.
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Old March 25 2013, 05:38 PM   #1769
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

Mojochi wrote: View Post
Vendikarr wrote: View Post
I thought Merle had some military experience. In an ambush situation, your intended target should be your first shot, so you don't give away your position before achieving your objective. Unless your position is secure and you can complete your mission despite your location being known. His location was far from secure, seeing as a walker managed to draw him out of hiding.

Of course I know this is TV and the villain has to stick around until the end of his arc. But it just made Merle look like a screw up instead of someone with military training.
I don't see it that way. He never expected the Governor to be on the front line when his plan went into motion. The Governor wasn't his intended target. Anyone he could eliminate was, as he knew he'd be storming the guard positions. His mission was to cut the Woodbury numbers to better Daryl's odds of survival. Plus, the very second he got lucky & saw The Gov. He took & scored the kill shot, but Ben stepped in the way at the very moment

He couldn't just sit around & wait for the Governor to show up, the assault was time sensitive, using the walkers as a temporary diversion, so he could shoot down combatants & in the chaos go unnoticed for a short time

I thought it was actually pretty smartly done given it was a suicide mission, & it almost worked. Only a tenth of a second from eliminating the Gov.

Frankly, the Woodbury lot are a pretty poor unit. Rick's group has the edge there, & from the look of the finale teaser, they are either gone, or are in hiding & possibly plan to fight with guerrilla tactics, which given the state of their group, is as good a plan as they can muster. It is after all THEIR turf
I guess I saw it as more of a 'cut off the head...' situation, not a battle of attrition.

If all he wanted to do was take as many with him, it worked well.
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Old March 25 2013, 05:39 PM   #1770
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

Every thing he [Shane]did was because he thought that was how he needed to be in the post-apocalyptic, post Rick, world. And, sometimes, he was right (the walker barn for example).
Not everything. As others have pointed out, some of it was selfishness due to him not having a family to live for. He wanted Lori, and if his best friend got in the way Shane rationalized that eliminating Rick was the best most sound decision for everyone.

In a way, you could argue that Merle was a better man than Shane. Shane and Rick had been friends since high school and were supposed to be like brothers. But Shane was willing to screw Rick over when the situation got desperate after the ZA. Not so Merle with Daryl.
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