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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old March 25 2013, 05:27 AM   #136
Captain Kathryn
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Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

teacake wrote: View Post
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Is it the most profound series of Trek? Maybe not. Did they use too much time travel and Borg? Maybe. But it has a great comedic angle and a special chemistry among the characters that I find the most enjoyable to watch.
Completely agree, the comedy and the chemistry so often delight. The characters and the show is bright and colorful in a way that shines. And since I love time travel and the Borg I'm a happy camper.

You'll love DS9 though, there is plenty of humor there as it goes along, though more often with the supporting characters.
Yeah, I like DS9 so far. But I am so used to the way Voyager's comedy works, that it is very different to watch. But I am enjoying it nonetheless. Kira is kick-ass!

I am sure every Trek series has something unique and special about it and for Voyager, I think it's best achievement was it's ability to be funny, snarky, witty, and bright without compromising it's main premise.

Like DS9, it was character-driven but had a lightness to it even though its general situation (being lost in the Delta Quadrant and being 70 years from home) is actually one of the seemingly most dark premises you could come up with...yet it seems to be the most light-hearted of the series from what I can tell. And I love that.
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Old March 25 2013, 05:55 AM   #137
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Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

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I wouldn't say horrible. Badly written at times.

Ex: The whole Seven and Chakotay deal, ewe.
I missed the bit with the Sheep? Was this some arcane Indian custom? He trades Seven for a Sheep with Queen? I mean seriously? How do you do that safely? Squeeze a lamb into a torpedo casing like a high tech sausage and fire it at the collective while running away at warp 8?
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Old March 25 2013, 01:45 PM   #138
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Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Pondwater wrote: View Post
I wouldn't say horrible. Badly written at times.

Ex: The whole Seven and Chakotay deal, ewe.
I missed the bit with the Sheep? Was this some arcane Indian custom? He trades Seven for a Sheep with Queen? I mean seriously? How do you do that safely? Squeeze a lamb into a torpedo casing like a high tech sausage and fire it at the collective while running away at warp 8?


They didn't have time to throw in some "Chakotay's people" custom into that episode. Personally, I'm glad they didn't.

I actually thought about it and either during the lapse between "Renaissance Man" and "Endgame", the most likely development of the Seven/Chakotay thing () either came from 1) Seven just being completely direct like she is and saying "I like you. Let's copulate!" or 2) Chakotay finds her "Chakotay and Seven are dating" holodeck program and is like "Whoa she likes me?" and then runs to the Cargo Bay (or Astrometrics).

To be honest, even though I hate C/7, I think Seven was probably using that holodeck-Chakotay to prepare her for "the real thing". It's just annoying that you never actually see them decide to start dating so you're left with "Where the HELL did that come from?"...
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Old March 25 2013, 06:04 PM   #139
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Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

What's up with all the Seven/Chakotay hate? It was hinted at in some of the episodes leading up to the finale. I didn't think it came out of nowhere at all. In fact, it was kinda hot......
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Old March 25 2013, 06:11 PM   #140
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Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

AdmiralScreed wrote: View Post
What's up with all the Seven/Chakotay hate? It was hinted at in some of the episodes leading up to the finale. I didn't think it came out of nowhere at all. In fact, it was kinda hot......
Oh I'm a fairly hardcore J/C fan.
That should explain my personal dislike of C/7.
It doesn't speak for everyone!

As for other viewers who aren't J/C fans but feel it was "too sudden"...I would just say that the relationship seemed sudden from Chakotay's side. He had never expressed romantic interest in her prior to "Endgame" as far I could tell (he was obviously not aware of his holographic simulation). Do you have any examples? I can't think of any indication of romance between them besides that holodeck program.

Seven's romantic interest in HIM was made clear in "Human Error" with her holodeck program. But, that wasn't the actual Chakotay. Chakotay wasn't aware of it.

Something that viewers did not get to see was them asking each other out or deciding to date, that kind of thing.

We got to see the whole relationship progression with Tom and B'Elanna. It was much more developed.
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Old March 25 2013, 09:15 PM   #141
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Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

She might have used a random crewman generator to pick her suitor?

(this is what really happened. Word for word.)

During the filming of Natural Law, Bob and Jeri approached the director for the episode... "Dude" he says "We're sleeping outside, so it's going to get cold, and there is no way that we are not going to snuggle... But there's snuggling and then there's snuggling."

Where then she continues "I have absolutely no problem with snuggling back. Snuggling back as hard as I can this side of a PG13 classification, because digging this guy is part of my back story. We did an episode where I spent a week knocking boots with his hologram. It could be growth for the character and experience for me as an actress. I want to maul him. Sexually."

Which is when Bob adds "I played the Chakotay Hologram as well as the regular flesh and blood Hologram. It was all pretty hot."

"So point blank buddy" The impressive blonde hammers home "Do you want us to sex this up? The fans will go ape, Mexican waves up and down the country that someone on this ship finally knows how to seal the deal after Garret punked out 3 years ago... 3 years! Dammmmmn. I can't imagine going 3 months without a conjugal from Brannon."

"We can be tasteful, subtle like what Kate and I did in season 2."

"HEY! What is this about season 2 you fricking Lothario? You and Kate? Chakotay took Janeway to bed, used her up and is now moving on to my character like some sort of playground trawling predator?"

"Chakotay had needs before you joined the cast and I'm not going to apologize to you for him!"

Which is when the director broke the two of them up from pulling each others hair "CHILDREN! BEHAVE! We have no plans to hook you two up. There are no plans to hook you up. There will be no plans to hook you up. You will preform the script as written, no adlibs or subtext or looking at each others bums. As written, sterile and sexless as GOD intended Voyager."
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Old March 25 2013, 09:50 PM   #142
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Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

Someday we will get the Star Trek we all want rather that the Star Trek we deserved.
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Old March 26 2013, 12:19 AM   #143
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Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

teacake wrote: View Post
Someday we will get the Star Trek we all want rather that the Star Trek we deserved.
I liked what I got.

I just choose to ignore some things...and make up for it by reading fanfiction.
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Old March 26 2013, 12:43 AM   #144
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Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

Have you read any of the hypothetical Season 3 Harry's Law fanfiction?
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Old March 26 2013, 04:03 AM   #145
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Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

I concur that the Seven/Chakotay romance could have and should have been better developed. I feel like they probably came up with the idea close to the end of the season, and by then it was too late to go back and plant the seeds, so they just dropped a few little hints in the final episodes and then sprung the romance on us in the very last episode. I guess they loved the idea of Seven ad Chakotay being a couple so much that they were willing to overlook the fact that it was undercooked and in need of more development. I agree with them, it was worth it.
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Old March 26 2013, 04:26 AM   #146
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Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

AdmiralScreed wrote: View Post
I concur that the Seven/Chakotay romance could have and should have been better developed. I feel like they probably came up with the idea close to the end of the season, and by then it was too late to go back and plant the seeds, so they just dropped a few little hints in the final episodes and then sprung the romance on us in the very last episode. I guess they loved the idea of Seven ad Chakotay being a couple so much that they were willing to overlook the fact that it was undercooked and in need of more development. I agree with them, it was worth it.
I won't get into a shipper debate by stating my reasons why I wanted Janeway to end up with Chakotay.

Don't get me wrong though...I absolutely LOVE Seven as a character...I think Jeri Ryan was brilliant...just not with Chakotay.
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Old March 26 2013, 04:33 AM   #147
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Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

Seven/Chakotay sucked because it pissed off THREE groups of shippers.

Janeway/Chakotay
Janeway/7
7/Doc
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Old March 26 2013, 04:36 AM   #148
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Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

The two hottest people on VOY needed to end up in bed.

Unfortunately despite subtext you could kill a cow with this didn't happen. On camera at least.

I'm still waiting for my brave new Star Trek. Star 5rek is like the church, perpetually twenty years behind current interests and mores. Still propping itself up with that interacial kiss.
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Old March 26 2013, 04:41 AM   #149
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Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

Dream wrote: View Post
Seven/Chakotay sucked because it pissed off THREE groups of shippers.

Janeway/Chakotay
Janeway/7
7/Doc
Yes...this is true.

Still the most angry, I believe, were the J/C shippers. We are hardcore about it.

Also...I just don't GET Janeway/7. I understand Janeway and Seven had a special bond...but Janeway was clearly not a lesbian (no jokes about this please...). And I know that in the fanfiction world, you can get away with making slash fics (I do it myself) even though in canon the characters aren't gay or whatever...but seriously...did they expect J/7 to ACTUALLY happen on the show? At least J/C was POSSIBLE for them to do in canon, on air, in the show, and manage to make a lot of viewers happy! I know not everyone wanted them to be together, but I think you either have the hardcore J/Cers and then the apathetic types who don't really care who's going with who. Is there anyone out there who could honestly say that there was 0 potential for that relationship (besides just your plain old VOY or Chakotay hater)? At least not only did some people WANT it, but it was POSSIBLE to do. And not only was it possible, but the two characters had openly admitted they care for each other numerous times, they had those weird candlelight dinners that were supposedly to discuss "ship matters"...but there was always wine and candlelight...and then whenever either of them was in sickbay, the other was ALWAYS right there, touching the other. I mean...there was history, there was potential! And Chakotay was the only person on that ship (besides the occasional Q) who was allowed to call her Kathryn without getting yelled at.

7/Doc was possible too (love their banter and their singing together and just all the scenes those two were in). They share the same intelligence, both are not entirely human, but still human enough (the Doc human in spirit, not in biology hehe) and both have the capability of being totally sarcastic and snarky. I love Doc/7. But I do not believe they would have ever made it realized on the show because the whole point of having Seven on the show was for her to experience humanity. And to do so with a hologram (albeit he is the best hologram...ever) would kind of defeat that point.

I am a Doc/7 fan, but for the show's purposes and Seven's character arc, it kind of wouldn't have worked. In the fanfiction universe, however...love that ship!
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Old March 26 2013, 04:43 AM   #150
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Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

teacake wrote: View Post
The two hottest people on VOY needed to end up in bed.

Unfortunately despite subtext you could kill a cow with this didn't happen. On camera at least.

I'm still waiting for my brave new Star Trek. Star 5rek is like the church, perpetually twenty years behind current interests and mores. Still propping itself up with that interacial kiss.
True that they were both hot (at least at the time. Wouldn't want to see Beltran in the nude nowadays...) while they were on the show. But I just can't see it. C/7 will forever be my nemesis...
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