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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old March 15 2013, 03:33 PM   #121
Icemizer
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Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

^The show did need some type of clunky robot character, wait sorry they had Harry.
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Old March 16 2013, 02:02 AM   #122
MrsStepford
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Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

I like Harry! You need to build layers in a set of characters. If everyone one was as big a personality as Tuvok, The Doctor and Seven of Nine or as feisty as B'Elanna or as determined as Janeway it would be too much. He's the straight guy to Tom. He has his own quiet, dignified set of traits.

Neelix is the one that I think could get the chop - but that's just me and I haven't seen the whole complete series.
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Old March 16 2013, 02:09 AM   #123
teacake
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Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

Well I'll admit, and have admitted before, that I always thought Harry was hot and I would go on a date with him.
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Old March 16 2013, 03:36 AM   #124
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Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

Wasn't a big fan of Kim, but Kim and Paris together were a good team.
Torres wasn't my favorite engineer but I thought that she made a good couple with Paris.
I didn't care much for Chakotay. It's mostly Beltran's fault I think.
I liked Janeway, but the writing for her character was uneven. Mulgrew really respected her role and the series and her place in the ST universe so I give her credit for that.
Tim Russ was really magnificent. He was basically an uncanny black Spock(Nimoy).
Neelix...had his moments. He was almost like a Trekkie along for the ride. That could either be refreshing or annoying.
Kes. I'm indifferent to her.
7 of 9. Its unfortunate that she played the de facto hot chick, she was a good actress with a good role and had lots to do. She instantly became the most interesting character on the show.
Doc: Picardo was great in the role.

Overall, not too shabby I think, but still the weakest cast.

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Old March 16 2013, 04:01 AM   #125
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Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

For me the weakest cast as far as riveting characters go is TNG and always will be. So much blah.

I adore my VOY but cast wise DS9 wins by light years, also has far more characters.
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Old March 16 2013, 04:29 AM   #126
RAMA
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Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

teacake wrote: View Post
For me the weakest cast as far as riveting characters go is TNG and always will be. So much blah.

I adore my VOY but cast wise DS9 wins by light years, also has far more characters.
I have some unusual ideas on the cast I think. Firstly my favorite cast is not necessarily the best cast. That would be STNG. It's strength may be chemistry as well as two standout stars with Spiner and Stewart, easily the best captain of Trek.

Best cast from top to bottom, surprisingly to some probably is Enterprise, it's solid throughout, without any one character really standing out save maybe Archer because of what he represents in history or Trip, because he is likable (I normally am not a huge fan of southern characters either). There isn't one I dislike and they all have their moments on the show.

Deep Space Nine is second. Another strong cast, with probably the best female character in all of Trek with Kira. Odo, O'brien, Sisko all have strong moments.

I have to mention TOS, they have strongly identifiable archetypes, are well known but the secondary characters are not developed enough nor are the actors good enough to stay on screen for any length of time.

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Old March 24 2013, 10:05 AM   #127
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Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

I never knew there was so much hate for poor Harry!
Neelix could be annoying, but most of the time he was ok.
The only character I really didnt care for was Chakotay.

About Seven of Nine....I like her as a character, but I dont like the way she took focus away from the other characters. AND...One of the things I hate the most that TV shows do is replacing characters! Adding a character is fine. Losing a character is fine. Replacing a character makes it feel less like a real story and more like...well, a TV show.
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Old March 24 2013, 10:39 AM   #128
Sadara
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Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

teacake wrote: View Post
For me the weakest cast as far as riveting characters go is TNG and always will be. So much blah.

I adore my VOY but cast wise DS9 wins by light years, also has far more characters.
^This. I started out watching TNG, but once I saw TOS back when I was a kid, I started loving it more because the characters were better. Not enough conflict on TNG.
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Old March 24 2013, 11:26 AM   #129
Lance
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Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

The very best episodes are almost always those where characters argue with each other. It's true of all the series. TNG, DS9, VOY... they (mostly) adhered to a "friendly friendly" approach between the major characters, but the very best episodes are often ones where two or more of them disagree about something. This was the original thinking behind putting the Maquis into Voyager, and not for nothing was Ro Laren so admired in TNG (she was someone who almost inevitably drew the others into conflict with her).
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Old March 24 2013, 07:19 PM   #130
Kathy Kringle
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Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

LoneDragon wrote: View Post
I never knew there was so much hate for poor Harry!
Neelix could be annoying, but most of the time he was ok.
The only character I really didnt care for was Chakotay.

About Seven of Nine....I like her as a character, but I dont like the way she took focus away from the other characters. AND...One of the things I hate the most that TV shows do is replacing characters! Adding a character is fine. Losing a character is fine. Replacing a character makes it feel less like a real story and more like...well, a TV show.
I agree on what you said about Harry and Neelix. Why so much hate for Harry? He was just trying to be a good officer! Poor Harry... Yes, he was a kiss-up, but who could blame him? He was straight out of the academy and on his first mission, he got stranded in the Delta Quadrant. That is some crappy luck. And even after that, he still tried his best always. He wasn't the most interesting character, but I will blame that on the writers. I have a soft spot for Harry too because I also play the clarinet. Band geeks stick together!

As for the Neelix hate --> I do enjoy poking fun at Neelix (cat? yes), but he was still one of my favorite characters. He started out using Voyager as just a means to free Kes, but ended up being very valuable to them. And even though he did not possess standard Starfleet Academy skills, he was native to the Delta Quadrant, which helped a great deal. And he cooked for everyone and tried to even make Tuvok smile. You can't hate on that!

I can't say I dislike any of the Voyager characters. I love all of them. If you remove any of them from the show...it's not the same show anymore.

That said, Kes was a little bit too one-dimensional in the first two seasons. Her spouts about THE DOCTOR IS REAL! And her super-duper kindness all the damn time. And...imagining her and Neelix getting it on also =

However, we all know that Kes changes in time... And gets replaced by a hot ...

But even though Kes is replaced and that is too bad for any series, "token hot chick replacement" turns out to be one of the funniest and most well-played characters on the show with a complexity that some other characters did not have (they underdeveloped characters like Harry and Chakotay compared to Seven of Nine).

I have not watched the entire Trek franchise (currently watching season 1 of DS9 now), but having seen all of the films, most of TNG and TOS, as of now VOY still is my favorite cast.

There is a unique sense of humor generated from the Doctor/EMH, Seven, Tom, Tuvok, Neelix, Janeway, and the rest of the characters that I believe other Trek series lack, in my opinion. But, I have always preferred comedy over drama. Sci-fi in and of itself will always be my favorite genre, but sci-fi mixed with comedy, without it making an entire joke of itself, is the best kind for me. I think the Voyager cast was the only cast to pull off the comedy without making it seem forced. It had just enough comedic moments to notice it as a special feature of VOY that other series didn't have without making it the focal point of the series.

Is it the most profound series of Trek? Maybe not. Did they use too much time travel and Borg? Maybe. But it has a great comedic angle and a special chemistry among the characters that I find the most enjoyable to watch.
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Last edited by Kathy Kringle; March 24 2013 at 08:49 PM.
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Old March 24 2013, 09:30 PM   #131
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Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

I wouldn't say Voyager had the best Trek characters, altho it's my favorite series (and I loved TOS & TNG, liked DS9 mostly), but it certainly doesn't have the worst cast; by a mile that was Enterprise, altho they weren't horrible, either. I enjoyed the cast interactions of Voyager a lot (well except for a certain "couple" in Endgame lol), and that's usually what attracts me to a TV show, besides good stories, and also the atmosphere sometimes.
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Old March 24 2013, 11:22 PM   #132
Kathy Kringle
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Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

Galekarens wrote: View Post
I wouldn't say Voyager had the best Trek characters, altho it's my favorite series (and I loved TOS & TNG, liked DS9 mostly), but it certainly doesn't have the worst cast; by a mile that was Enterprise, altho they weren't horrible, either. I enjoyed the cast interactions of Voyager a lot (well except for a certain "couple" in Endgame lol), and that's usually what attracts me to a TV show, besides good stories, and also the atmosphere sometimes.
I love Seven, but indeed hated the coupling. J/C for me.
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Old March 24 2013, 11:35 PM   #133
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Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

I wouldn't say horrible. Badly written at times.

Ex: The whole Seven and Chakotay deal, ewe.
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Old March 24 2013, 11:40 PM   #134
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Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

Captain Kathryn wrote: View Post
Why so much hate for Harry? He was just trying to be a good officer! Poor Harry... Yes, he was a kiss-up, but who could blame him? He was straight out of the academy and on his first mission, he got stranded in the Delta Quadrant. That is some crappy luck.
And not once did they utilise any of that to ramp up the dramatic potential in the character.
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Old March 25 2013, 04:51 AM   #135
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Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

Captain Kathryn wrote: View Post

Is it the most profound series of Trek? Maybe not. Did they use too much time travel and Borg? Maybe. But it has a great comedic angle and a special chemistry among the characters that I find the most enjoyable to watch.
Completely agree, the comedy and the chemistry so often delight. The characters and the show is bright and colorful in a way that shines. And since I love time travel and the Borg I'm a happy camper.

You'll love DS9 though, there is plenty of humor there as it goes along, though more often with the supporting characters.
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