RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,954
Posts: 5,391,000
Members: 24,722
Currently online: 534
Newest member: Jadakiss

TrekToday headlines

Forbes Cast In Powers
By: T'Bonz on Aug 22

Dorn To Voice Firefly Character
By: T'Bonz on Aug 22

No ALS Ice Bucket For Saldana
By: T'Bonz on Aug 22

Free Star Trek Trexels Game
By: T'Bonz on Aug 22

New Trek-themed Bobble Heads
By: T'Bonz on Aug 21

IDW Publishing November Trek Comic
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Pegg/Wright Trilogy In The Works
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Star Trek: The Compendium Rebate Details
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Gold Key Archives Volume 2
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Takei Documentary Wins Award
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Lounges & General Chat > Miscellaneous

Miscellaneous Discussion of non-Trek topics.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 25 2013, 03:39 AM   #61
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: How Do You Define Success In Life?

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
this one guy got polo. Then he was President.
At least it wasn't water polo. That's very cruel to the horses.
__________________
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Mr. Laser Beam is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 25 2013, 03:44 AM   #62
Use of Time
Commodore
 
Use of Time's Avatar
 
Location: Va. Beach, VA
Re: How Do You Define Success In Life?

If I were to hypothetically consider being healthy as a major factor in being successful then what do I care if luck has something to do with that. I don't think the thread is limited to defining success as something that is personally earned. I'll take any break that life wants to toss my way.
__________________
Searching for something, a million miles and a ways to go.
Use of Time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 25 2013, 03:45 AM   #63
CorporalClegg
Admiral
 
CorporalClegg's Avatar
 
Location: Where my heart is.
Re: How Do You Define Success In Life?

Sigh.

I think I need to go back to typing school.
__________________
Konnichi wa!
CorporalClegg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 25 2013, 03:47 AM   #64
thestrangequark
Vice Admiral
 
thestrangequark's Avatar
 
Location: thestrangequark
Re: How Do You Define Success In Life?

teacake wrote: View Post
thestrangequark wrote: View Post
It's far more luck than anything else.

Is the term fundamental attribution bias? I can't remember, it's something like that -- the tendency we have to overestimate the role our behavior plays in a situation and underestimate external factors. You can run all the marathons you like and micromanage every fucking nutrient that enters your body, but if you come across the wrong pathogen, or have a gene that's just a little wonky, you're fucked.

ETA: Fundamental Attribution Error -- I was close!
I agree with you, but if you get hit with a pathogen or develop cancer and you've let yourself fall into a state of lifestyle induced ill health dealing with disease will be a lot harder on you. And that just plain applies to age as well.

If you say, "I've got my health" that's luck.

If you say, "I've worked to maintain and achieve this level of physical well being" that's success.
I do agree with that, sort of. However the converse is that if one starts qualifying health in terms of success, then when things don't go so well, one feels a failure. I guess my particular disease is just exceptionally apt for illustrating how little control we actually have over our bodies, which made the inaccuracy of that statement stand out especially. I can do absolutely everything perfectly: dose exactly right at the exact right time, eat exactly the right amount of exactly the right foods, cover exactly for whatever physical activity I'm doing, and still some other confounding factor will come in and fuck up my blood sugar. It's not a reason not to keep working at it, but it's a very good argument against seeing health as something at which one can be successful. We may be successful at certain behaviors which can promote good health, but that's not the same thing as being healthy.
__________________
The Enterprise is my TARDIS.

View my art!
thestrangequark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 25 2013, 03:52 AM   #65
thestrangequark
Vice Admiral
 
thestrangequark's Avatar
 
Location: thestrangequark
Re: How Do You Define Success In Life?

teacake wrote: View Post
thestrangequark wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
Probably your use of the 'f' word.
Clearly I don't swear nearly enough on this board if people think my using fuck implies offense! If I'm offended I will say so. If I use 'fuck' it's because I've had a mouth like a sailor since I was 6 years old.
You should swear more. It's rather fetching.
Fuck off, bitch.




__________________
The Enterprise is my TARDIS.

View my art!
thestrangequark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 25 2013, 03:53 AM   #66
Use of Time
Commodore
 
Use of Time's Avatar
 
Location: Va. Beach, VA
Re: How Do You Define Success In Life?

I think the only issue here is people are confusing happiness and success. I think TSQ says it pretty well here that health would be more appropriately equated to happiness than success considering the lack of control we have over our own bodies.
__________________
Searching for something, a million miles and a ways to go.
Use of Time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 25 2013, 03:55 AM   #67
thestrangequark
Vice Admiral
 
thestrangequark's Avatar
 
Location: thestrangequark
Re: How Do You Define Success In Life?

Use of Time wrote: View Post
If I were to hypothetically consider being healthy as a major factor in being successful then what do I care if luck has something to do with that. I don't think the thread is limited to defining success as something that is personally earned. I'll take any break that life wants to toss my way.
It must feel great to take the credit for everything good that happens to you! Slightly deluded, but fantastic fun!
__________________
The Enterprise is my TARDIS.

View my art!
thestrangequark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 25 2013, 03:58 AM   #68
Use of Time
Commodore
 
Use of Time's Avatar
 
Location: Va. Beach, VA
Re: How Do You Define Success In Life?

It sure is!
__________________
Searching for something, a million miles and a ways to go.
Use of Time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 25 2013, 03:59 AM   #69
CorporalClegg
Admiral
 
CorporalClegg's Avatar
 
Location: Where my heart is.
Re: How Do You Define Success In Life?

thestrangequark wrote: View Post
Fuck off, bitch.

May I quote you in my sig?
__________________
Konnichi wa!
CorporalClegg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 25 2013, 04:01 AM   #70
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: How Do You Define Success In Life?

thestrangequark wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
thestrangequark wrote: View Post
It's far more luck than anything else.

Is the term fundamental attribution bias? I can't remember, it's something like that -- the tendency we have to overestimate the role our behavior plays in a situation and underestimate external factors. You can run all the marathons you like and micromanage every fucking nutrient that enters your body, but if you come across the wrong pathogen, or have a gene that's just a little wonky, you're fucked.

ETA: Fundamental Attribution Error -- I was close!
I agree with you, but if you get hit with a pathogen or develop cancer and you've let yourself fall into a state of lifestyle induced ill health dealing with disease will be a lot harder on you. And that just plain applies to age as well.

If you say, "I've got my health" that's luck.

If you say, "I've worked to maintain and achieve this level of physical well being" that's success.
I do agree with that, sort of. However the converse is that if one starts qualifying health in terms of success, then when things don't go so well, one feels a failure.
You're right, it would be easy for someone to feel a failure because of the way society frames it. However I would saya person's success at health is a daily thing, you might have something go wrong but if you're not actively contributing to ill health by your lifestyle you are still being successful in how you take care of your own body.

I can do absolutely everything perfectly: dose exactly right at the exact right time, eat exactly the right amount of exactly the right foods, cover exactly for whatever physical activity I'm doing, and still some other confounding factor will come in and fuck up my blood sugar. It's not a reason not to keep working at it, but it's a very good argument against seeing health as something at which one can be successful. We may be successful at certain behaviors which can promote good health, but that's not the same thing as being healthy.
But even if your body fucks up you are still successful in not having contributed to that and to other unseen things. Like your arteries, you said you are quite athletic and your arteries as you age will benefit from your success at maintaining your health via exercise.

But generally, yeah, bad choice of words because that's all rather too much parsing and the message people get is they have failed if something goes wrong.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 25 2013, 04:03 AM   #71
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: How Do You Define Success In Life?

thestrangequark wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
thestrangequark wrote: View Post
Clearly I don't swear nearly enough on this board if people think my using fuck implies offense! If I'm offended I will say so. If I use 'fuck' it's because I've had a mouth like a sailor since I was 6 years old.
You should swear more. It's rather fetching.
Fuck off, bitch.




You ruined it with the smiley. Fucker.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 25 2013, 04:04 AM   #72
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: How Do You Define Success In Life?

I must revise my earlier statement. "Success in life" equals "Not ruining threads like I've just done".
__________________
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Mr. Laser Beam is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 25 2013, 04:05 AM   #73
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: How Do You Define Success In Life?

thestrangequark wrote: View Post
Use of Time wrote: View Post
If I were to hypothetically consider being healthy as a major factor in being successful then what do I care if luck has something to do with that. I don't think the thread is limited to defining success as something that is personally earned. I'll take any break that life wants to toss my way.
It must feel great to take the credit for everything good that happens to you! Slightly deluded, but fantastic fun!
Hey at least he didn't say God did it.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 25 2013, 04:07 AM   #74
Use of Time
Commodore
 
Use of Time's Avatar
 
Location: Va. Beach, VA
Re: How Do You Define Success In Life?

My point is that success and luck don't have to be mutually exclusive. I've already pretty much agreed with your whole premise as far contributing health to success soooo...
__________________
Searching for something, a million miles and a ways to go.
Use of Time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 25 2013, 04:18 AM   #75
thestrangequark
Vice Admiral
 
thestrangequark's Avatar
 
Location: thestrangequark
Re: How Do You Define Success In Life?

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
thestrangequark wrote: View Post
Fuck off, bitch.

May I quote you in my sig?
If you like, though I'm sure it's not the most original thing that's ever been said!

teacake wrote: View Post
thestrangequark wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post

I agree with you, but if you get hit with a pathogen or develop cancer and you've let yourself fall into a state of lifestyle induced ill health dealing with disease will be a lot harder on you. And that just plain applies to age as well.

If you say, "I've got my health" that's luck.

If you say, "I've worked to maintain and achieve this level of physical well being" that's success.
I do agree with that, sort of. However the converse is that if one starts qualifying health in terms of success, then when things don't go so well, one feels a failure.
You're right, it would be easy for someone to feel a failure because of the way society frames it. However I would saya person's success at health is a daily thing, you might have something go wrong but if you're not actively contributing to ill health by your lifestyle you are still being successful in how you take care of your own body.

I can do absolutely everything perfectly: dose exactly right at the exact right time, eat exactly the right amount of exactly the right foods, cover exactly for whatever physical activity I'm doing, and still some other confounding factor will come in and fuck up my blood sugar. It's not a reason not to keep working at it, but it's a very good argument against seeing health as something at which one can be successful. We may be successful at certain behaviors which can promote good health, but that's not the same thing as being healthy.
But even if your body fucks up you are still successful in not having contributed to that and to other unseen things. Like your arteries, you said you are quite athletic and your arteries as you age will benefit from your success at maintaining your health via exercise.

But generally, yeah, bad choice of words because that's all rather too much parsing and the message people get is they have failed if something goes wrong.
I think it really comes down, again, to the fundamental attribution error, and recognizing the difference between behavior and outcome. I think it's fine to qualify behaviors in terms of success (to a degree), but wrong to qualify outcome in those terms. I will never be successful in perfectly controlling my diabetes, but I can be successful most of the time in doing the behaviors and making the choices that can contribute to better overall management.

To bring it back around to the original topic of having a "successful" life (and I still don't even get what that really means), I think for a lot of people much unhappiness is caused by mistakenly placing value in outcomes and qualifying them in terms of successes and failures. A lot of judgement comes from the same fallacious thinking, too. I can put value only in what I can do and how I react, because in the end I don't really have control over how the cards fall.
__________________
The Enterprise is my TARDIS.

View my art!
thestrangequark is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:01 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.