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Old March 24 2013, 09:50 PM   #1996
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Re: So What Are you Reading?: Generations

I started "Devil's Bargain" this morning.
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Old March 25 2013, 01:25 AM   #1997
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Re: So What Are you Reading?: Generations

I started "Kiss the Girls" by James Patterson...and finished "Door Into Summer" by Robert Heinlein....

"Fledgling" was put back in my reading pile (i.e. pushed back)....especially since the first Robert Parker 'Spencer' novel, "The Godwulf Manuscript" has been added.
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Old March 25 2013, 04:21 PM   #1998
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Re: So What Are you Reading?: Generations

Currently reading:
Cold Equations Book 3: The Body Electric by David Mack
Shadows on the Sun by Michael Jan Friedman
A Clash of Kings by George R. R. Martin
Imbalance (TNG #22) by V. E. Mitchell

Over the past week, I finished:
Cold Equations Book 2: Silent Weapons by David Mack
Starfleet Corps of Engineers Book 1: Have Tech, Will Travel (various authors)
Best Destiny by Diane Carey
Spartacus (TNG #20) by T. L. Mancour
Chains of Command (TNG #21) by Bill McCay and Eloise Flood

I had a bit of trouble getting into Silent Weapons at first, but it kept on getting faster and faster until I couldn't put it down towards the end. I'm going to be really interested to see how
plays out in future books.

It took me a while to get through Best Destiny - I read it back when it was originally published but didn't really remember much about it - it seemed to move pretty slow and I just couldn't get drawn in to the story. I usually enjoy Diane Carey's books but this one just didn't do it for me. It is a direct sequel to Final Frontier, which I enjoyed much more.

I never have read any of the SCE e-books, then I went through Have Tech, Will Travel, which includes the first 4 books of the series, in a single day - they were all great books and I look forward to reading the rest of the series - I am curious to see how Interphase plays out since I haven't yet read part 2 - I am assuming it is contradicted by later TV events since it was published in 2001, but it's still a great read regardless.
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Old March 25 2013, 10:56 PM   #1999
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Re: So What Are you Reading?: Generations

Reading TOS: Devil's Bargain by Tony Daniel.
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Old March 26 2013, 12:22 AM   #2000
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Re: So What Are you Reading?: Generations

I'm almost done with A Time to Heal and I'm loving it. Next will probably be the last book in this series A Time for War, A Time for Peace.
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Old March 26 2013, 12:28 AM   #2001
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Re: So What Are you Reading?: Generations

Garrovick wrote: View Post
I am curious to see how Interphase plays out since I haven't yet read part 2 - I am assuming it is contradicted by later TV events since it was published in 2001, but it's still a great read regardless.
Superficially, yes, but it's easy enough to fudge an explanation that reconciles them, given the circumstances.
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Old March 26 2013, 07:09 PM   #2002
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Re: So What Are you Reading?: Generations

Just finished rereading Taking Wing. I'm reading as many of the Titan books as the public library has. It was about how I remembered it. A decent book, even if I got annoyed sometimes. One of the annoyances of this book was when one of the "diverse" crew would show up and they were an alien never seen on the show. I mean, one or two were described well enough that I could imagine what they look like, but the Chief Engineer and to a lesser extent the Pacifican helm officer annoyed me because I had no idea what they looked like, and they weren't described very well. I thought for a second that the pacifican might have been one of the sentient dolphins a few of the older ST books had. Considering the reveal about her and Riker, its a good thing I was completely wrong about that The Chief engineer I thought would be like a large version of the friendly form of the gremlins. I was also way off, but thats what the description lead me to believe for some reason. I'm usually ok with stuff like that, but usually aliens created for ST books are described better, and its usually assumed that the reader doesn't know what they look like, even if they've made other book appearances. As a general rule, if they weren't on TV and they aren't near human, I'd like a good description.

Besides that, the story was decent, although some of the side characters/plots were annoying. I'm glad Keru was put into a coma, he was annoying and I got really sick of the lame stuff about him being angry at Worf or the annoying Ensign who wanted to date him. A lot of the Keru and Norellis stuff felt like a token "Oh, look, gay starfleet officers" thing. I have no problem with gay characters in books/etc, even though I'm straight, but it added nothing to the story and just ended up wasting ink. Akaar also got on my nerves at times, but not too badly. Honestly, compared to the last Titan thing I read (Destiny book 1) that had Troi risking killing herself for a baby that literally had zero chance of living, any of the annoyaning characters in this book seemed like geniuses in comparison. Actually, that book makes reading these interesting, because it proves that Vale and akaar were correct, that eventually Riker will let his wife act like an insane idiot because she's his wife and not act like he should, even though any other officer who acted like her would have been relieved of duty immediately, for psycological reasons if not the fact that they could keel over at any time.

This was an ok start to a new ST series. I'd forgotten a lot of the book, so it was almost like reading it for the first time. I'm sure I read the second before, but I barely remember it either, so it should be interesting. I think the library has the first 4-5 books, so I'll read what they have.
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Old March 26 2013, 10:32 PM   #2003
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Re: So What Are you Reading?: Generations

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
One of the annoyances of this book was when one of the "diverse" crew would show up and they were an alien never seen on the show. I mean, one or two were described well enough that I could imagine what they look like, but the Chief Engineer and to a lesser extent the Pacifican helm officer annoyed me because I had no idea what they looked like, and they weren't described very well. I thought for a second that the pacifican might have been one of the sentient dolphins a few of the older ST books had. Considering the reveal about her and Riker, its a good thing I was completely wrong about that
I fleshed out Aili Lavena's description in Orion's Hounds, and she's pretty accurately depicted on the cover of Over a Torrent Sea.

And human-dolphin sex is not unheard of. Dolphins will try to have sex with just about anything that moves.


The Chief engineer I thought would be like a large version of the friendly form of the gremlins. I was also way off, but thats what the description lead me to believe for some reason.
Which chief engineer? The original one, Nidani Ledrah, was a Tiburon, a species seen in TOS: "The Way to Eden" and DS9: "The Ship," Her successor, Xin Ra-Havreii, is an Efrosian, a species seen in The Voyage Home and The Undiscovered Country.

I guess you must be referring to Torvig, who does have sort of Mogwai-like ears. But he's hardly the chief engineer; he was initially a cadet doing work-study aboard the ship, and is currently an ensign serving as a junior engineer.



A lot of the Keru and Norellis stuff felt like a token "Oh, look, gay starfleet officers" thing. I have no problem with gay characters in books/etc, even though I'm straight, but it added nothing to the story and just ended up wasting ink.
I wonder, if it had been a subplot about a romantic flirtation between a man and a woman, would you have thought it was a token "Oh look, heterosexual Starfleet officers" thing? Plenty of stories have romantic subplots that don't add to the main plot. There are such subplots in TTN, such as Vale/Jaza and Ra-Havreii/Pazlar.

So maybe it's not about calling attention to them being gay, but just the opposite: treating them the same way any other character would be treated.
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Old March 26 2013, 10:47 PM   #2004
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Re: So What Are you Reading?: Generations

Reading Cast No Shadow by James Swallow. So that's what happened to Valeris.
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Old March 26 2013, 11:03 PM   #2005
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Re: So What Are you Reading?: Generations

Garrovick wrote: View Post

I never have read any of the SCE e-books, then I went through Have Tech, Will Travel, which includes the first 4 books of the series, in a single day - they were all great books and I look forward to reading the rest of the series - I am curious to see how Interphase plays out since I haven't yet read part 2 - I am assuming it is contradicted by later TV events since it was published in 2001, but it's still a great read regardless.
I'm reading the SCE stories at the moment. I'm a good bit in front of you (just finished 26 - The Age Of Unreason), but it looks like you read rather faster than me !

I'm reading them between other things - partly due to not actually liking some of them that much. I'd say I'm enjoying about 1 in 5 - the rest range from OK down.

Still got a good way to go though...
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Old March 26 2013, 11:15 PM   #2006
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Re: So What Are you Reading?: Generations

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I would still have complained. Look, I won't lie. Gay romance in media isn't exactly a topic i'm comfortable with, but I don't think its wrong or anything. I believe everyone has a choice, and in the end its fine to have it in books and other stuff, if it actually has a point. I can think of many comic book characters who are gay and they don't seem around just to show diversity (like Batwoman, Northstar, Flat Man, etc.). I'll admit that I don't like romance in general in books/other media and star Trek isn't usually an example of something that does romance well anyway outside of the big guys (Riker/Troi, Picard/Crusher in the books, etc). But, if the Keru stuff in this book had a point and didn't feel like the writers padding out their word count and/or just wanting to show "diversity" at the expense of the actual story, then I wouldn't have a problem. As it is, it derails the sections its in, and goes nowhere. I'd object to any stupid, pointless romance, regardless of who is in it. If other relationships happen that are pointless, I'll call them out, too.

As for the engineer, I was talking about Nidani Ledrah. The Way to Eden reference isn't fair because I always thought he was a human with really messed up ears, and the few times I've seen the episode it wasn't made clear that he was an alien, just maybe someone not from earth. I've never seen the DS9 episode, but not only does that guy look like a completely different species then the guy from TWTE, but he was apparently a background character so its not like its a well known example. Also, how am I supposed to know what an Efrosian is? The few times you see them, their race isn't referred to (although thanks for linking to that, I was just imagining the guy as a human with a mustache). Since I haven't read Orion's Hounds or Over a Torrent sea, it seems like the discription or that species comes a bit late in the series (although since she seems to be a very minor character, just mentioned so that Troi can tease Riker, it kind of makes sense that she's not described, even if it is a bit annoying). As for human-dolphin sex, I'm not touching that one. I've seen the videos on various TV shows, I know how dolphins are. It doesn't make it any less creepy. Since the officer in question isn't a dolphin, its not a big deal (although what her species actually is brings to mind Futurama's episode about the mer-people and how fish/aquatic creatures reproduce, but I'd rather just not think about it).
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Old March 26 2013, 11:37 PM   #2007
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Re: So What Are you Reading?: Generations

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
I'd object to any stupid, pointless romance, regardless of who is in it. If other relationships happen that are pointless, I'll call them out, too.
But that's just my point. Couldn't it be that the reason you didn't like the relationship was just that it seemed pointless, rather than having anything to do with the orientation of the participants? Why assume they were trying to call attention to their being gay, rather than simply writing those characters the same way they'd write any other characters?


As for the engineer, I was talking about Nidani Ledrah. The Way to Eden reference isn't fair because I always thought he was a human with really messed up ears, and the few times I've seen the episode it wasn't made clear that he was an alien, just maybe someone not from earth.
His ears were a lot more strange-looking than Spock's, and Spock was an alien. So that's kind of a surprising conclusion for you to have drawn.

I've never seen the DS9 episode, but not only does that guy look like a completely different species then the guy from TWTE, but he was apparently a background character so its not like its a well known example.
Here's a better picture. Aside from the ear prosthetics being more subtly sculpted and better blended, the only difference is the row of small spines on the forehead.

Granted, Tiburonians are not a major Trek race, but the point is that they were seen onscreen; you just didn't know it. And you could've always tried looking up "Tiburonian" on Memory Alpha to confirm whether or not they'd been seen before. I mean, knowing what Trek aliens look like can be as big a problem for the dozens of little-seen minor races as it is for book-original races, so I find it useful to consult Memory Alpha and other online resources when I wonder about things like that.
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Old March 26 2013, 11:54 PM   #2008
kirk55555
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Re: So What Are you Reading?: Generations

Christopher wrote: View Post
kirk55555 wrote: View Post
I'd object to any stupid, pointless romance, regardless of who is in it. If other relationships happen that are pointless, I'll call them out, too.
But that's just my point. Couldn't it be that the reason you didn't like the relationship was just that it seemed pointless, rather than having anything to do with the orientation of the participants? Why assume they were trying to call attention to their being gay, rather than simply writing those characters the same way they'd write any other characters?
I think it is probably both. Its pointless to the story, but I guess trying to call attention to gay characters counts as a point. It did feel like thats the main reason they were there, even beyond the potential romance with each other. What did we get about either character? One was the boyfriend of a extra who got killed in First Contact, and he's a friend of Nurse Ogawa. The other was freaked out by the doctor, and thought Keru was attractive. That is all either of them added to the story, minus one or two action scenes with Keru that could have used any security officer. It would have been pointless regardless of their genders, but the fact that almost every scene they were in was about them being gay and not advancing either the story or really even the characters very much is what makes me think they were just there for diversity. I mean, they weren't going to be main characters. Keru was basically filling in until Tuvok showed up, and the other guy was completely pointless. They had no real reason to be in the book at all, outside of a pointless romance and calling attention to the fact that there were gay characters on the Titan.

Christopher wrote: View Post
As for the engineer, I was talking about Nidani Ledrah. The Way to Eden reference isn't fair because I always thought he was a human with really messed up ears, and the few times I've seen the episode it wasn't made clear that he was an alien, just maybe someone not from earth.
His ears were a lot more strange-looking than Spock's, and Spock was an alien. So that's kind of a surprising conclusion for you to have drawn.

I've never seen the DS9 episode, but not only does that guy look like a completely different species then the guy from TWTE, but he was apparently a background character so its not like its a well known example.
Here's a better picture. Aside from the ear prosthetics being more subtly sculpted and better blended, the only difference is the row of small spines on the forehead.

Granted, Tiburonians are not a major Trek race, but the point is that they were seen onscreen; you just didn't know it. And you could've always tried looking up "Tiburonian" on Memory Alpha to confirm whether or not they'd been seen before. I mean, knowing what Trek aliens look like can be as big a problem for the dozens of little-seen minor races as it is for book-original races, so I find it useful to consult Memory Alpha and other online resources when I wonder about things like that.
Well, I looked it up eventually, but not having internet at home means that when something like that happens while reading I usually have to wait until the next day, at which point I might be far enough along in my reading that I just don't feel like doing it. As for the Tiburon, even if I had known the guy in TWTE was an alien, the description of the engineer didn't even match up (to me, atleast) to what he looked like, so I wouldn't have made the connection anyway.
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Old March 27 2013, 12:06 AM   #2009
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Re: So What Are you Reading?: Generations

About to start New Frontier: Fire on High.
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Old March 27 2013, 01:28 AM   #2010
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Re: So What Are you Reading?: Generations

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Just finished rereading Taking Wing. I'm reading as many of the Titan books as the public library has. It was about how I remembered it. A decent book, even if I got annoyed sometimes. One of the annoyances of this book was when one of the "diverse" crew would show up and they were an alien never seen on the show. I mean, one or two were described well enough that I could imagine what they look like, but the Chief Engineer and to a lesser extent the Pacifican helm officer annoyed me because I had no idea what they looked like, and they weren't described very well. I thought for a second that the pacifican might have been one of the sentient dolphins a few of the older ST books had. Considering the reveal about her and Riker, its a good thing I was completely wrong about that The Chief engineer I thought would be like a large version of the friendly form of the gremlins. I was also way off, but thats what the description lead me to believe for some reason. I'm usually ok with stuff like that, but usually aliens created for ST books are described better, and its usually assumed that the reader doesn't know what they look like, even if they've made other book appearances. As a general rule, if they weren't on TV and they aren't near human, I'd like a good description.
I have to disagree with you on this point. I thought they did a fine job describing the alien characters in the Titan books. The only one I ever had trouble with was Cethente, and I really think that was me and not the description itself. As for Ledrah and Lavena, I honestly don't remember Ledrah that well, but I've had a crystal clear image of Lavena pretty much from the beginning. I think the only thing I didn't really have right was her skin color, but that's pretty minor. Besides, in most of the scenes with her all you need to picture is a humanoid in an isolation suit.
Besides that, the story was decent, although some of the side characters/plots were annoying. I'm glad Keru was put into a coma, he was annoying and I got really sick of the lame stuff about him being angry at Worf or the annoying Ensign who wanted to date him. A lot of the Keru and Norellis stuff felt like a token "Oh, look, gay starfleet officers" thing. I have no problem with gay characters in books/etc, even though I'm straight, but it added nothing to the story and just ended up wasting ink. Akaar also got on my nerves at times, but not too badly.
I really don't think any of that was pointless. I thought it was some pretty good character development for Keru, who I had only encountered in a cameo in the second WODS9 book at that point. As for the whole gay thing, I really didn't see where they were treated any different than the heterosexual couples in other Trek Lit books. Just talking about two gay people being interested in each other or being a couple really isn't really drawing attention to their sexuality any more than talking about the same things with a hetero couple is drawing attention to theirs.
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