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Old March 23 2013, 08:25 PM   #136
scotpens
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

teacake wrote: View Post
King Daniel wrote: View Post
In my last attempt at a re-watch, I couldn't get past how unnaturally everyone acted in TNG. Often walking over, standing in small groups with arms stright at their sides, taking turns to recite their lines.
That's what happens when you evolve, you stop waving your arms around like animals.
Try telling that to an Italian.
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Old March 24 2013, 03:28 AM   #137
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

teacake wrote: View Post
Not doing it for me in either pic.
How nice for you.
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Old March 24 2013, 04:57 AM   #138
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

The hairless, naked Persis really jives with what I think of the androgynous 70s and GeneR's vision of future, enlightened, post-animalistic humans. Don't they look like that in THX 1138?

I will concur neither pic does it for me, if we're weighing in. Somebody do a poll: normal Persis or "futuristic" Persis? I guess that's sexist to focus on her looks, but there've been polls on Shat's toupee, right?
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Old March 24 2013, 05:05 AM   #139
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

I prefer Persis with hair.
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Old March 24 2013, 06:35 AM   #140
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

teacake wrote: View Post
Not doing it for me in either pic.
We've got to remember that Ilia was supposed to be an alien, and while yes, you can have aliens that are just regular humanoid in appearance, the lack of hair was determined to be the physical characteristic of Deltans. So how attractive she is with or without hair should not be used as a critique against Gene's ideas anymore than debating whether or not Spock should have had pointy ears or eyebrows. And yes, there was resistance to Spock's appearance back in the day too--because studio heads thought he looked too much like the devil.

That being said, there's really no other female celebrity who looked that good bald. She's the one everyone goes to in order to prove that bald women can be sexy, which is a success as far as I'm concerned.

Also, whatever TMP lacked in other areas, it got people's attention, if nothing else, by virtue of Ilia's appearance. So it served a very important purpose of starting up some water-cooler talk about bald women. Here we are all these years later still debating it.
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Old March 24 2013, 07:06 AM   #141
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

The whole character seemed kind of ridiculous to me. But I agree with plynch, the look was of the era and went well with TMP's visuals for the future.
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Old March 24 2013, 07:18 AM   #142
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

Gojira wrote: View Post
Relayer1 wrote: View Post
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Gene Roddenberry had some great ideas and some not so hot.

I'd say one of his worst ideas was that a beautiful woman in TMP should be bald.
I thought that was brilliant. Persis was far more stunning without hair than she was with it. It wouldn't have been so with most women...
Just watched TMP the other day and thought the same thing. If she had had hair it would have made the character average. By being bald she was unique and different and stood out.
It says a lot that most of TMP's promotional material over the years has focused firmly on Kirk, Spock and Ilia. Up to and including the soon-to-be-released standalone Blu Ray cover of the movie. Her look made a definite impact that was totally unique (and arguably remains so to this day).
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Old March 24 2013, 08:05 AM   #143
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

mos6507 wrote: View Post
That being said, there's really no other female celebrity who looked that good bald.




No contest. And that's just my honour-bound-as-an-Irishman response. Natalie Portman did good work in the same vein. I'd reach for either of them before Ilia in such an argument, if only because most people wouldn't know who Ilia was.

Not that she doesn't look good, mind you.
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Old March 24 2013, 08:20 AM   #144
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

Sinead in her prime was just delicious!
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Old March 24 2013, 11:18 AM   #145
Lance
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

BillJ wrote: View Post
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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Gene's treatment of women on the show. Short of one attempt to put Uhura in command TOS has a tendency to be fairly misogynistic and reductionist in regards to women. Surprising considering how in touch Gene was with messages of racial equality.
I think he gets somewhat of a pass on that considering he did originally have a woman as XO in The Cage and Tasha Yar as security chief in TNG.
To be honest, while the symbolism of having a female second-in-command in "The Cage" was excellent, I'm not sure that sexual equality was entirely Roddenberry's modus operandi in writing that character. It was more a case of promising his girlfriend she'd have a major (or indeed, a 'Majel' ) role in his series. And when that didn't pan out, he parachuted her in as Nurse Chapel. Nepotism will get you everywhere in Hollywood.

I'll give you that Tasha Yar was progressive, in thought. But not so much in execution.
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Old March 24 2013, 03:07 PM   #146
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

Lance wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
erastus25 wrote: View Post
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Gene's treatment of women on the show. Short of one attempt to put Uhura in command TOS has a tendency to be fairly misogynistic and reductionist in regards to women. Surprising considering how in touch Gene was with messages of racial equality.
I think he gets somewhat of a pass on that considering he did originally have a woman as XO in The Cage and Tasha Yar as security chief in TNG.
To be honest, while the symbolism of having a female second-in-command in "The Cage" was excellent, I'm not sure that sexual equality was entirely Roddenberry's modus operandi in writing that character. It was more a case of promising his girlfriend she'd have a major (or indeed, a 'Majel' ) role in his series. And when that didn't pan out, he parachuted her in as Nurse Chapel. Nepotism will get you everywhere in Hollywood.

I'll give you that Tasha Yar was progressive, in thought. But not so much in execution.
That's why he only gets 'somewhat of a pass'.
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Old March 24 2013, 09:59 PM   #147
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

mos6507 wrote: View Post
That being said, there's really no other female celebrity who looked that good bald. She's the one everyone goes to in order to prove that bald women can be sexy
Noémie Lenoir from Rush Hour 3




& of course G.I. Jane



Frankly, if a woman is sexy, she don't need no hair to be sexy
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Old March 24 2013, 11:35 PM   #148
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

Call me old fashioned, but I like women to have hair.

But I'm fine with Ilya, an alien character not having any. I liked her non-acting style too. She seemed more alien, even when she was not Vger-ized, than most Star Trek aliens. Maybe they should have had more non-North Americans play aliens.
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Old March 25 2013, 12:33 AM   #149
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

Lance wrote: View Post
Gojira wrote: View Post
Relayer1 wrote: View Post

I thought that was brilliant. Persis was far more stunning without hair than she was with it. It wouldn't have been so with most women...
Just watched TMP the other day and thought the same thing. If she had had hair it would have made the character average. By being bald she was unique and different and stood out.
It says a lot that most of TMP's promotional material over the years has focused firmly on Kirk, Spock and Ilia. Up to and including the soon-to-be-released standalone Blu Ray cover of the movie. Her look made a definite impact that was totally unique (and arguably remains so to this day).
Even I have to grant that the Bob Peak poster is iconic. Of course, Bob Peak was a brilliant comercial artist.
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Old March 25 2013, 06:33 AM   #150
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

If there was one idea that really hit me wrong in TMP, it was the whole "V'ger" naming thing. I mean, c'mon... the lettering on the side of the probe had carbon deposits masking out "oya", and so the probe ends up calling itself "V'ger"? I mean, how ridiculous is that? I don't care how you want to fan wank it, the idea was wrong. The memory circuits don't coincidentally get corrupt to match the lettering on the craft.

What they should have done was when opening the access panel, they see the name "VOYAGER" and registry number imprinted on the interior. Then they conclude that a data error resulted in corrupt memory of some core information, hence V'ger not knowing its original name correctly. That would've made more sense to me.
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