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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old March 24 2013, 01:41 AM   #1
Vanyel
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Why my friend doesn't like DS9: Sisko.

I was talking to my friend one day about DS9 and how it is easily as good a series as TNG or TOS. My friend didn't think so. I did show him a couple of episodes, In The Pale Moonlight, and The Way of the Warrior. He liked the episodes, but he didn't like Sisko.

Well there is one reason I already knew as to why he didn't like DS9, story arcs. He likes his TV in bottle shows. Otherwise, to him, it's a soap opera. Which I don't understand as he used to watch As The World Turns with me when we were in High School. So I had to push on and see why he didn't like Sisko.

If you haven't guessed by now, the reason he doesn't like Sisko and by extension DS9 is because of how Sisko treated Picard in their first meeting on board the Enterprise in Emissary. I should have thought of that because my friend is very much a part of Team Picard and Sisko was barely trying to hide his anger at Picard over the loss of Jennifer at Wolf 359. I understood why Sisko was angry, I also understand why it was hard for Sisko to keep his feelings in check when meeting a superior officer, but I also knew Picard's struggles with what happened during The Best of Both Worlds, so I saw both sides. I also enjoyed the acting of both men in the scene. Brooks' anger was visible but only just held in check and Stewart's momentarily being taken aback by meeting a victim of what the Borg forced him to do. It's a great scene to watch.

I must admit though that at that moment I didn't like Sisko either. Once the episode was over I liked Sisko, seeing that he never got over Jennifer's death and that he may have acted the same way to Riker or Data or even Worf, seeing them as wanting to save their captain over the Federation and all the civilians that may have died at Wolf 359.

I hope I made sense.

Anyway now for my question, who here did not like Sisko for a time (even if it was just the span of that scene, or ever) because of his first meeting with Picard on the Enterprise?
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Old March 24 2013, 01:47 AM   #2
teacake
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Re: Why my friend doesn't like DS9: Sisko.

I thought he could have gotten his shit together before the Picard meeting. It's not like it was sprung on him. And it's not like everyone wasn't very aware of how assimilation takes you over completely. Heck this is space, the old "alien eradicates my individuality and uses me as a meat puppet" story is hardly something new.

And can we say IRONY! Because this happened to Sisko's OWN MOTHER!

I wonder if he thought of Picard when he found out the details of that.

(And no, I never disliked Sisko because of that. I thought he walked damn weird in Season 1 and I never like his "ahhh HEEHEEHEE" laugh AT ALL but that's about it.)
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Old March 24 2013, 01:58 AM   #3
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Re: Why my friend doesn't like DS9: Sisko.

The whining of Picard groupies was more than pathetic. Sure it wasn't Picard's fault so Sisko was out of line. But Picard groupies couldn't let it go even after Sisko realized that he himself was the problem and got over his misguided anger of Picard. Nope. This colored the opinion of Sisko by Picard's fans from the beginning. I even recall some dude who wrote some Star Trek Tech book saying in one passage that at first he didn't like Sisko either because he had insulted "his hero" Jean Luc. Seriously fans needs to get a life and a grip when they won't let go of small stuff like that. They are fictional characters for goodness sakes and people want to hold grudges against them. Sisko got over it. Picard got over it. All over the course of one episode. But viewers can't move beyond it after 20 years? That says something about those folks and it ain't pretty.
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Old March 24 2013, 02:01 AM   #4
NKemp3
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Re: Why my friend doesn't like DS9: Sisko.

teacake wrote: View Post
I wonder if he thought of Picard when he found out the details of that.
Why should he have? He had more important things on his mind.
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Old March 24 2013, 03:33 AM   #5
Pondwater
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Re: Why my friend doesn't like DS9: Sisko.

There are probably many people who probably wanted to spit acid at Picard for Wolf 359.
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Old March 24 2013, 03:43 AM   #6
teacake
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Re: Why my friend doesn't like DS9: Sisko.

NKemp3 wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
I wonder if he thought of Picard when he found out the details of that.
Why should he have? He had more important things on his mind.
In the quiet moments of the night when he reflected on what had happened to the woman who was his biological mother I am sure the comparison came to mind.
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Old March 24 2013, 03:46 AM   #7
LoneDragon
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Re: Why my friend doesn't like DS9: Sisko.

I thought he was going to say because he was annoying Picard. Nagging him...

Anyone watch South Park?
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Old March 24 2013, 03:59 AM   #8
Captain Kathryn
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Re: Why my friend doesn't like DS9: Sisko.

I just started watching DS9 and I was a little bit agitated by the way he treated Picard at first because everyone knows what happens to your freedom of thought and action when you are assimilated by the Borg. The real Picard did not wish for anyone to die. Those people died because of the Borg, not because of Picard.

However, I immediately understood why Sisko was so angry...because he lost his wife and had to raise his son as a single parent. That's rough. Even though I am sure he knew in the back of his mind that it was not actually Picard's fault...just looking at Picard's face must have been rough for him and I understood his anger. And it was the first episode...cut him a break. I've only seen the first couple of episodes so far and even though I thought he seemed out of line when speaking to Picard, I do not dislike Sisko at all. He seems to care a great deal about his son and his work.

I understand his anger. And as I've heard, he does realize later on that it really was not Picard's fault. Even in the first episode, they seem to make amends at the end and shake hands.
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Old March 24 2013, 04:02 AM   #9
CrazyMatt
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Re: Why my friend doesn't like DS9: Sisko.

I think Sisko is one of the best (and from a longtime militay officer's POV) and most realistically portayed leaders of any Star Trek series. Avery Brooks was a huge asset to DS9.
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Old March 24 2013, 04:42 AM   #10
davejames
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Re: Why my friend doesn't like DS9: Sisko.

Yeah rewatching Emissary now, I do think Sisko comes on a bit too strong in that scene. But it's still compelling as hell to watch, and their final scene together does a great job smoothing things over.

The only thing that seems weird to me, and a bit jarring, is that after that first meeting Sisko's right back to being his happy go lucky self in the next scene. Lol
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Old March 24 2013, 04:43 AM   #11
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Re: Why my friend doesn't like DS9: Sisko.

davejames wrote: View Post
Yeah rewatching Emissary now, I do think Sisko comes on a bit too strong in that scene. But it's still compelling as hell to watch, and their final scene together does a great job smoothing things over.

The only thing that seems weird to me, and a bit jarring, is that after that first meeting Sisko's right back to being his happy go lucky self in the next scene. Lol
Yeah I noticed that lol.
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Old March 24 2013, 04:58 AM   #12
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Re: Why my friend doesn't like DS9: Sisko.

Sisko's anger was misplaced, but I don't think Picard deserved to be a target of it. It's not as if he could be held truly responsible for Wolf 359. Besides, Sisko purposefully poisoned a planet and tricked an entire empire into a war. No super race forced him to do these things, and I'm sure many millions of Romulans died in the Dominion War, probably many times that of Wolf 359. Who is the "devil" person now?

That said, both Picard and Sisko are IMO the best written and acted captains, and my two favourite captains on that basis.
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Old March 24 2013, 05:42 AM   #13
Tosk
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Re: Why my friend doesn't like DS9: Sisko.

It's easy for us as an audience to say that Sisko was too harsh (I disagree, but whatever) ...but if a man who had suffered brain trauma and was not himself murdered your family, I'd bet real money you'd have an attitude when meeting him three years later after he was healed. If you say you'd be fine with him, I don't believe you.
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Old March 24 2013, 07:07 AM   #14
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Re: Why my friend doesn't like DS9: Sisko.

Tosk wrote: View Post
It's easy for us as an audience to say that Sisko was too harsh (I disagree, but whatever) ...but if a man who had suffered brain trauma and was not himself murdered your family, I'd bet real money you'd have an attitude when meeting him three years later after he was healed. If you say you'd be fine with him, I don't believe you.
That is an excellent point. You're absolutely right.
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Old March 24 2013, 08:32 AM   #15
Vanyel
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Re: Why my friend doesn't like DS9: Sisko.

teacake wrote: View Post
Tosk wrote: View Post
It's easy for us as an audience to say that Sisko was too harsh (I disagree, but whatever) ...but if a man who had suffered brain trauma and was not himself murdered your family, I'd bet real money you'd have an attitude when meeting him three years later after he was healed. If you say you'd be fine with him, I don't believe you.
That is an excellent point. You're absolutely right.
And if you were the family of the man who had brain trauma, you'd probably be upset with the guy hurting your family member because of a horrible act your family member had no control over.

Yes, we have the God's eye view, and can see both sides. And it is because we have that view we can feel angry with Sisko, sympathy for Picard, then happiness at Sisko finally working his way through his feeling and finally leaving the Battle of Wolf 359 behind him.

Some viewers can't.
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