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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old March 15 2013, 10:45 PM   #76
Sadara
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Re: Captain Solok

Regarding Chu'lak, I wonder if incarcerated Vulcans get furloughed every seven years when their pon farr rolls around.
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Old March 16 2013, 12:29 AM   #77
George Steinbrenner
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Re: Captain Solok

^ They probably still have conjugal visits.
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Old March 16 2013, 12:32 AM   #78
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Re: Captain Solok

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
^ They probably still have conjugal visits.
There is also the Holodeck.
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Old March 16 2013, 12:36 AM   #79
George Steinbrenner
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Re: Captain Solok

Dream wrote: View Post
There is also the Holodeck.
Tuvok tried that once and it didn't work.
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Old March 16 2013, 12:39 AM   #80
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Re: Captain Solok

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Dream wrote: View Post
There is also the Holodeck.
Tuvok tried that once and it didn't work.
Actually it did.

Watch "Body and Soul" again.
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Old March 17 2013, 12:13 AM   #81
Sadara
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Re: Captain Solok

Dream wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Dream wrote: View Post
There is also the Holodeck.
Tuvok tried that once and it didn't work.
Actually it did.

Watch "Body and Soul" again.
It did in the sense that it was a hologram of Tuvok's wife which enabled him to eliminate any sense of infidelity on his part and then his bond with her helped some I'd imagine. For an unbonded Vulcan I'm not sure if it would work. That said, I'm sure there are few unbonded Vulcans at Chu'lak's age.
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Old March 18 2013, 02:58 PM   #82
The Librarian
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Re: Captain Solok

From what we've seen of the Federation penal system, there's no reason to believe they wouldn't let him go home for that sort of thing, probably with the 24th-century equivalent of an ankle bracelet. In fact, he may well have been treated for his mental problems by that time and been released. According to TOS, they've gotten pretty good at rehabilitation because most crime is a result of either psychological problems or social circumstances like poverty, aside from a few crimes of passion (or ideological ones like the Maquis).
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Old March 21 2013, 01:57 PM   #83
indolover
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Re: Captain Solok

I guess logic is subjective. If Solok were logical, he would not have even joined Starfleet and mix with inferior non-Vulcans, and would campaign for a Vulcan independence movement and secession from the Federation lol..

Even still, it figures that some aliens would hold prejudices. I think Vulcans in honesty are an arrogant people. Yes they are cerebral and physically strong, but this leads conceit IMO.
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Old March 23 2013, 06:49 PM   #84
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Re: Captain Solok

The character of Solok was written to make him unlikeable to the audience, thereby giving us a sense of satisfaction when he "loses" to Sisko. It would be hard to write an unlikeable character without emotion as it would make the "dislikeable" connection to the audience less likely.
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Old July 11 2013, 05:27 AM   #85
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Re: Captain Solok

It is quite uncertain what Solok's true motives were. However, I'm not sure he 'bullied' anyone any more than humans can 'bully' Vulcans. There are instances were humans on Earth (ENT for example), who pick fights with Vulcans (or other aliens by calling the Vulcan) with broad generalizations about the Vulcans---they're emotionless arrogant pigheads etc---Not all true, but a reaction to previous encounters and thus act towards other aliens with the backlash of their bad experiences. I think it is possible that Solok had been previously hurt by a human and/or had a very bad experience. Obviously not by Sisko, but Sisko may be taking the backlash from bad experiences Solok might have had earlier on. I'm not excusing Solok for his behavior, but this is the best idea I can come up with for what spurred his behavior. (Recall how he said "human game of taunting" when he was in fact around other non-humans; he has a specific sensitivity to humans)
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Old July 11 2013, 10:55 PM   #86
TpelKestra
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Re: Captain Solok

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Actually, Vulcans do have emotions. They simply suppress them.
Of course. But Solok is clearly failing in his suppression of emotions. His gloating, smirking, and anti-Human prejudice clearly demonstrate this.

Spock, half-human, is more Vulcan than Solok could ever claim to be.
I know there is a huge chunk of this that I still have yet to read, and posting this could make a mute point, but I am doing it anyway.

You also have to keep in mind that Solok won the Christopher Pike medal for Valor TWICE. He didn't get them by being a dick to other ships and in all honesty, I couldn't see him ignoring a distress call.

Further more, This was in the middle of the Dominion War and the T'Kumbra had been out fighting on the front lines for 6 months. That is a long time Especially considering the casualties acquired during this time.

That alone would tax any Vulcan and their control as Vulcans are pacifists. He was doing his duty as a Star Fleet Captain but I am sure the Vulcan part of him would have struggled with all the violence and loosened his control.

When he arrived on DS9, it didn't appear right off the bat what his intentions were. Not until Sisko, being under the impression that Solok was there to start a fight, was rude to him. So yeah...I battle hardened Vulcan who really just wants a break, is getting attitude from his old rival. Challenge him to a baseball game.

Something Solok obviously knew was Sisko's thing. Something that he had his own crew playing. I have my thoughts on that as well, but I digress.

Solok was an ass, but no one is perfect. And when you get chewed up and spit out from a long and grueling war, Vulcan or not, you are a little on edge.

Keep in mind that Sisko was also not the only Captain posting weekly casualty reports. So was Solok. Solok likely wanted to end it all just as badly as Sisko did. However...he could also harbor some resentment toward Sisko, believing that Sisko was the reason for the war. That he could have handled it better but didn't.

Ok...Taking a breather.
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Old July 11 2013, 11:23 PM   #87
Sadara
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Re: Captain Solok

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Dream wrote: View Post
There is also the Holodeck.
Tuvok tried that once and it didn't work.
It was Vorik that it didn't work on; likely because he had no mental bond with the hologram. Tuvok was better able to convince himself it would work since a) he had a mental bond to his wife and b) the hologram was of his wife. Vorik had neither of those.
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Old July 11 2013, 11:40 PM   #88
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Re: Captain Solok

TpelKestra wrote: View Post
You also have to keep in mind that Solok won the Christopher Pike medal for Valor TWICE.
I am aware of that. But we have no idea what he actually did to earn those medals. Perhaps he saved Vulcan itself? Twice?

Indeed, perhaps the T'Kumbra was part of a fleet protecting Vulcan, or at least stationed near there. I find this very likely, actually. It would let Solok and his crew keep close to home and not have to do anything for anyone who isn't Vulcan (except for the other ships in the fleet, although those could also be all-Vulcan-crewed).

As for Solok being shell-shocked from the war? Again: He's a Vulcan, he's supposed to control his emotions. Let him quit if it gets to be too much for him. I should think that a Vulcan, of all people, would see the "logic" in stepping aside when you can't do your job.
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Old July 11 2013, 11:49 PM   #89
TpelKestra
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Re: Captain Solok

Ok, caught up.

I agree with Sadara on Vorik. The Vulcan mind is a fascinating thing. lol

But to continue on my point...

Most of this is just theories I have come up with to logically explain Solok's and Sisko's relationship. (As I have taken to writing fan fiction of Solok and his crew)

They went to the Academy together and knew each other. I hardly think all of this was started in the bar with the first initial conflict.

However, you have Sisko who is charasmatic and an over all likeable guy. Very popular I would imagine.

Then you have Solok who is better then Sisko in pretty much every other way aside from his personality.

I would put money on the fact that Solok was envious of Sisko, and the only relief he got, was from being able to piss Sisko off. Getting Sisko to show a less likeable side of himself that people shy away from. As his crew did when he booted Rom off the team.

That being said, I can see Solok in a way looking up to Sisko. And once they had their wrestling match, Solok thought that they had created a competitive relationship. (This is was also referred to earlier) Solok didn't take it as seriously as Sisko did. Sisko saw it as a personal attack on himself. Solok likely saw it as just another game.

And I hardly think that Solok began playing baseball just to piss Sisko off. I am sure that many times during the war Solok was made aware of what Sisko was doing. He likely would be keeping close tabs on the news of him.

Dealing with issues on his own ship, mainly a crew of Vulcans that are out fighting, in keeping order and some balance aboard his own ship. Baseball is a game for teams. What better way to get your crews mind off of battle after battle and the loss of comrades then to have them play a game where they have to act as a team? A game that has nothing to do with War?

So keeping tabs on Sisko, knowing he is a baseball fan, takes it as a good idea and starts his own crew on it.

So what is to say Solok wouldn't be highly fascinated to play against his rival. The man he got the idea from to begin with. Surely he has his crew doing the same.

Get to DS9, find out that Sisko is still bitter. Finds the notion absolutely illogical on Sisko's part, but continues with plans of challenging him anyway. He won't refuse considering he is still emotionally affected by Solok.

If Solok really wanted to be a hateful prick, he could have simply told Sisko that with his emotional instability, that he is surprised he made it thus far. However he made no such comment.
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Old July 11 2013, 11:51 PM   #90
George Steinbrenner
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Re: Captain Solok

TpelKestra wrote: View Post
I would put money on the fact that Solok was envious of Sisko, and the only relief he got, was from being able to piss Sisko off.
Solok is a Vulcan. He's not supposed to be envious. Envy is one of the basest, nastiest human emotions ever. Hardly becoming a Vulcan. Vulcans place no value in being charming or likeable, so even if Sisko had the advantage in that area (and I agree, he does), Solok should not care.
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