RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,217
Posts: 5,437,778
Members: 24,953
Currently online: 439
Newest member: Kavanc

TrekToday headlines

Cumberbatch In Wax
By: T'Bonz on Oct 24

Trek Screenwriter Washington D.C. Appearance
By: T'Bonz on Oct 23

Two Official Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Oct 22

Pine In New Skit
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

Stewart In Holiday Film
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

The Red Shirt Diaries #8
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

IDW Publishing January Comics
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

Retro Review: Chrysalis
By: Michelle on Oct 18

The Next Generation Season Seven Blu-ray Details
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

CBS Launches Streaming Service
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 21 2013, 09:57 PM   #1
feek61
Captain
 
feek61's Avatar
 
Location: The Sunshine State
So just how old WAS Pike?

Something about "The Menagerie" has always bothered me; and it is a line that Mendez say to Kirk as they are going to see Pike for the first time. The line after Kirk says he met Pike once; Mendez says "About your age, big, handsome man; vital, active". Then Spock says that he served with him for "11 years, 4 months, 5 days." Later on when we start seeing the images from Talos 4 Spock says that "this is 13 years ago."

Ok, we know that Kirk is around 35 years old so if Pike was about the same age as Kirk then during the time of "The Cage" Pike was only about 22 years old? I think someone goofed unless of course I am missing something.
__________________
feek61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21 2013, 10:21 PM   #2
C.E. Evans
Vice Admiral
 
C.E. Evans's Avatar
 
Location: Saint Louis (aka Defiance)
Re: So just how old WAS Pike?

I think Pike was about ten years older than Kirk. "About your age," was a very figurative remark by Mendez and not to be taken as literal.
__________________
"Everybody wants to rule the world..."
C.E. Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21 2013, 10:28 PM   #3
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: So just how old WAS Pike?

Considering that Mendez speaks in clipped sentences, it seems likeliest that he meant Pike at timepoint X was the age Kirk is now. Remember how the exchange goes? Mendez asks if the two have met; Kirk says they met at Pike's promotion; and then Mendez launches into this line where he describes the man Pike was.

It would make sense for Mendez to emphasize how alike Pike and Kirk are, despite their considerable age gap - both in terms of the plot of the episode (Mendez wants to tell Kirk what a loss Pike's injury is to him and Starfleet) and of the drama (the audience draws the obvious connection between the two skipper characters, separated by decades but subject to similar whims of fortune - they already care for Kirk, but now they have to start caring for Pike, too, and that's easy because Pike is Kirk).

I can't for a moment think that the writer would literally have meant to say that Pike is the same age as Kirk. He was the same age once, though, and what we hear is a valid expression of that.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21 2013, 10:42 PM   #4
GSchnitzer
Co-Executive Producer
 
GSchnitzer's Avatar
 
Location: Gaithersburg, Maryland, USA, Terra
Send a message via AIM to GSchnitzer Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to GSchnitzer Send a message via Yahoo to GSchnitzer
Re: So just how old WAS Pike?

"The Talosian flashbacks we are going to be seeing of him later in this episode took place back when he was 'about your age'."

That's what Mendez was trying to say. Of course, Kirk, having met Pike, knows exacly how old Pike is. The line was meant for us, not for Kirk.
__________________
Greg Schnitzer
Co-Executive Producer
Star Trek Phase II
http://www.startrekphase2.com
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3348883/
GSchnitzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22 2013, 12:04 AM   #5
feek61
Captain
 
feek61's Avatar
 
Location: The Sunshine State
Re: So just how old WAS Pike?

GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
"The Talosian flashbacks we are going to be seeing of him later in this episode took place back when he was 'about your age'."

That's what Mendez was trying to say. Of course, Kirk, having met Pike, knows exacly how old Pike is. The line was meant for us, not for Kirk.
No, I get that. I have always considered Pike during "The Cage" to be about Kirk's age. It was just a confusing way to introduce Pikes age IMO.
__________________
feek61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22 2013, 02:30 AM   #6
Brown-Eyed Ghoul
Vice Admiral
 
Brown-Eyed Ghoul's Avatar
 
Location: scotpens
Re: So just how old WAS Pike?

Timo wrote: View Post
Considering that Mendez speaks in clipped sentences, it seems likeliest that he meant Pike at timepoint X was the age Kirk is now.
That's how I always figured it, but it was a careless bit of writing that could have been clarified with a few more words. If Mendez had described Pike as "about your age when he took command of the Enterprise," we wouldn't be having this discussion.
__________________
“All the universe or nothingness. Which shall it be, Passworthy? Which shall it be?”
Brown-Eyed Ghoul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22 2013, 03:32 AM   #7
HarryM
Fleet Captain
 
HarryM's Avatar
 
Location: Old Earth
Re: So just how old WAS Pike?

Yes, so he's about 45 in "Menagerie" if he was Kirks age when the events at Talos IV took place. FWIW, Jeffrey Hunter was about 38 when "The Cage" was shot.
HarryM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22 2013, 04:50 AM   #8
Wingsley
Commodore
 
Wingsley's Avatar
 
Location: Wingsley
Re: So just how old WAS Pike?

I never accepted that James T. Kirk was in his early 30s at the beginning of TOS. I know there was that line in "The Deadly Years" when he insisted he was 34, but that seemed ridiculous to me. While I suppose it is not impossible for a naval officer to rise to the rank of Captain (equivalent of an army colonel) that fast, it still seemed a bit of a stretch, even for an over-achiever like Kirk.

I always assumed Kirk to be in his 40s.

This would suggest Pike to be in his 50s.
__________________
"The way that you wander is the way that you choose. / The day that you tarry is the day that you lose. / Sunshine or thunder, a man will always wonder / Where the fair wind blows ..."
-- Lyrics, Jeremiah Johnson's theme.
Wingsley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22 2013, 04:53 AM   #9
Geoff Peterson
Fleet Admiral
 
Geoff Peterson's Avatar
 
Location: 20 feet from an outlet
Re: So just how old WAS Pike?

I'll stick to what the show says.
__________________
Nerys Myk
Geoff Peterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22 2013, 05:37 AM   #10
golddragon71
Lieutenant
 
Re: So just how old WAS Pike?

Kirk has been recognized by many sources as the Youngest Captain in Starfleet and the apparent ages of the other captains we meet seems to bear this out. Decker, Tracey, Merrick, etc... are all in their mid 40's-Early 50's. Kirk seems to be the only Constitution Class Starship Captain to be lacking any grey in his hair
__________________
"Captain, there are some things that transcend even the discipline of the Service."
golddragon71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22 2013, 10:10 AM   #11
GSchnitzer
Co-Executive Producer
 
GSchnitzer's Avatar
 
Location: Gaithersburg, Maryland, USA, Terra
Send a message via AIM to GSchnitzer Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to GSchnitzer Send a message via Yahoo to GSchnitzer
Re: So just how old WAS Pike?

golddragon71 wrote: View Post
Kirk seems to be the only Constitution Class Starship Captain to be lacking any grey in his hair
"Must...restrain...self! Making hair-related joke would be too easy! Like...shooting...fish...in...barrel! Must...hold...back!"
__________________
Greg Schnitzer
Co-Executive Producer
Star Trek Phase II
http://www.startrekphase2.com
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3348883/
GSchnitzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22 2013, 10:32 AM   #12
Relayer1
Commodore
 
Relayer1's Avatar
 
Location: The Black Country, England
Re: So just how old WAS Pike?

I saw TOS Kirk as about 30, Pike around 38/42.
__________________
Soon oh soon the light, Pass within and soothe this endless night, And wait here for you, Our reason to be here...
Relayer1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22 2013, 11:35 AM   #13
Metryq
Captain
 
Metryq's Avatar
 
Re: So just how old WAS Pike?

Maybe Mendez meant that Pike was about Kirk's age—mentally. Both in their teens. They both like to rassle with green women, female crew members...

__________________
"No, I better not look. I just might be in there."
—Foghorn Leghorn, Little Boy Boo
Metryq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22 2013, 11:47 AM   #14
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: So just how old WAS Pike?

Kirk has been recognized by many sources as the Youngest Captain in Starfleet
...Although surprisingly, these sources do not include onscreen Star Trek itself. The only reference to a "youngest Captain" or perhaps "youngest captain" establishes that by 2364, the record is set at 25 years. Plenty of margin for somebody from the 22nd or early 23rd century to have outdone Jim Kirk.

Since Pike wore less glitter on his sleeves than Kirk did during the respective early adventures of the characters, we might argue he was a bit younger in "The Cage" than Kirk was in "Where No Man".

Or then simply less driven or otherwise slower to climb the rank ladder. We have no real idea when Pike made Captain, and whether he already held that rank in "The Cage" or merely served in the position of captain.

Basically, Pike is a blank slate, and every theory about him can be assumed to be more or less correct. Even Greenwood's take on the character offers virtually nothing new, except perhaps slightly more grey to favor the upper end of age estimates.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22 2013, 11:52 AM   #15
Elvira
Vice Admiral
 
Elvira's Avatar
 
Location: t'girl
Re: So just how old WAS Pike?

I see about your age as meaning Kirk in his mid thirties and Pike at around fifty are both middle aged.
Elvira is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:58 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.