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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old March 20 2013, 08:50 AM   #16
Therin of Andor
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Re: Scotty

Grup wrote: View Post
Or would a Star Fleet member with more seniority be up for the job?
There weren't many Starfleet ships and crews left, except for those safe in the Laurentian System.
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Old March 20 2013, 10:27 AM   #17
Mirror Sulu
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Re: Scotty

Kirk's promotion was also my biggest gripe with the last movie. Spock was more suited/qualified to captain than Kirk, who had no business even being on the ship. It seems he was solely put in the position he was because Pike respected Kirk snr. Also...

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Old March 20 2013, 03:25 PM   #18
yousirname
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Re: Scotty

I initially dismissed the promotion as silly but understandable given what the film wanted to achieve by the time the credits rolled.

But then I was reading a book set in WWII and it mentions a few times in passing the concept of 'wartime rank'. Basically that during wartime, a captain might be a major, or a major a colonel, or a colonel a general, or whatever, for the duration of the war within a particular theatre.

It seems to me to be explicable in those terms. Not that they actually are at war by the end of the movie, but that it might make sense to put themselves on a war footing, since they're highly vulnerable militarily after losing so many ships.

But I mean, it's not something that seriously worries me. It would have been kind of a gyp to have him be 'Lieutenant Kirk' at the end of the movie. I'd have felt let down. It's not a documentary, let it be an action adventure.
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Old March 20 2013, 04:20 PM   #19
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Re: Scotty

Just as the Mirror Universe operates under different rules, part of the alternate universe of nuTrek is that rank and promotions make absolutely no sense.
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Old March 20 2013, 04:25 PM   #20
The Mirrorball Man
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Re: Scotty

DalekJim wrote: View Post
I'm no army guy but I'm pretty sure it's not good form to promote to captain the guy who has only ever in his Starfleet career been on one mission, which he snuck on to illegally, and during which proved himself incapable of following orders.
Kirk is no army guy either.
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Old March 20 2013, 04:39 PM   #21
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Re: Scotty

yousirname wrote: View Post
I initially dismissed the promotion as silly but understandable given what the film wanted to achieve by the time the credits rolled.

But then I was reading a book set in WWII and it mentions a few times in passing the concept of 'wartime rank'. Basically that during wartime, a captain might be a major, or a major a colonel, or a colonel a general, or whatever, for the duration of the war within a particular theatre.

It seems to me to be explicable in those terms. Not that they actually are at war by the end of the movie, but that it might make sense to put themselves on a war footing, since they're highly vulnerable militarily after losing so many ships.

But I mean, it's not something that seriously worries me. It would have been kind of a gyp to have him be 'Lieutenant Kirk' at the end of the movie. I'd have felt let down. It's not a documentary, let it be an action adventure.
Yeah. The movie had to end with him in the captain's chair. Period. The plausibility is problematic, and the practicality and reality can be (and has been) argued. But while it may have been a bit contrived, it wasn't so ridiculous under the circumstances. He got a heroic reward for a heroic deed.

I'm sure it's hardly business as ususal for Starfleet to give the captaincy of a starship to a twenty-something, but besides doing what he did, Kirk is exceptional in almost every category. Spock Prime certainly seemed satisfied with what happened. Being in the captain's chair is his first, best destiny. He's a natural; an outlier. That's actually why I'm a little disappointed by the early part of STID.
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Old March 20 2013, 04:42 PM   #22
yousirname
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Re: Scotty

Franklin wrote: View Post
He's a natural; an outlier. That's actually why I'm a little disappointed by the early part of STID.
It does feel a little bit like going back over ground already covered. But I'll wait and see how it's actually handled.
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Old March 20 2013, 05:19 PM   #23
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Re: Scotty

tighr wrote: View Post
Yeah, it was clearly a punishment assignment.
So while Scotty's being punished for beaming Porthos into oblivion, why was Keenser there? What had he done that required punishment?

hammerhead wrote: View Post
As an aside I'm certain in the real world Lt ranks are given after graduation in certain circumstances, I was actually offered this when applying to the UK Navy for engineering.
How much education a person has can influence what rank they star off as. My mother claimed that due to her university credits, she could have started off as a Captain (as in O-3 Captain) if she had joined the Army in her younger days.
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Old March 20 2013, 05:23 PM   #24
tighr
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Re: Scotty

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
tighr wrote: View Post
Yeah, it was clearly a punishment assignment.
So while Scotty's being punished for beaming Porthos into oblivion, why was Keenser there? What had he done that required punishment?
The character was not sufficiently developed in the film nor in related materials to give us that information.
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Old March 20 2013, 05:50 PM   #25
The Wormhole
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Re: Scotty

tighr wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
tighr wrote: View Post
Yeah, it was clearly a punishment assignment.
So while Scotty's being punished for beaming Porthos into oblivion, why was Keenser there? What had he done that required punishment?
The character was not sufficiently developed in the film nor in related materials to give us that information.
If you want to bring the comic into this, Keenser originally believed being assigned to Delta Vega was a great opportunity. At the time it was a functional Starfleet facility with a full staff of many officers, until eventually it just became him until Scotty arrived. So for some reason Starfleet reassigns the dozens officers serving at Delta Vega but keeps Keenser as a sort of lighthouse keeper and sends him a disgraced officer as company.

Then again, Keenser's only real purpose in the movies is comic relief and I'm clearly overthinking his role with this post.
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Old March 20 2013, 05:52 PM   #26
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Re: Scotty

One man's hell is another man's heaven.
The fact that it's a punishment assignment for Scotty doesn't mean it is so for anyone else.
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Old March 21 2013, 01:55 AM   #27
hammerhead
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Re: Scotty

hammerhead wrote: View Post
I'm certain in the real world Lt ranks are given after graduation in certain circumstances, I was actually offered this when applying to the UK Navy for engineering.
The British Royal Navy does not have an Ensign rank, it starts at Lieutenant for officers.[/QUOTE]

British Navy has Midshipsmen or Sub Lieutenant as O-1. I was offered full Lieutenant O-2, as Wormhole mentioned was down to education.
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Old March 21 2013, 01:58 AM   #28
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Re: Scotty

SalvorHardin wrote: View Post
One man's hell is another man's heaven.
The fact that it's a punishment assignment for Scotty doesn't mean it is so for anyone else.
Besides, Keenser might have already been assigned to work with Scotty on his previous posting. After Scotty was posted to Delta Vega, Keenser might have volunteered to accompany him out of respect for his colleague. It's clear that Keenser likes Scotty and was sad to see him go...

(which brings to mind, what is Keenser still doing at Delta Vega? They don't expect him to work there alone, do they?)
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Old March 21 2013, 02:37 AM   #29
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Re: Scotty

He's been transferred to the Enterprise by the end of the film.
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Old March 21 2013, 02:39 AM   #30
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Re: Scotty

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
which brings to mind, what is Keenser still doing at Delta Vega?
He's not. He's on the Enterprise at the end of the last film. "Get down!"

The IDW comic featuring Keenser was a flashback story.
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