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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old March 20 2013, 05:09 AM   #31
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Yet another "Memory Wall" post

Maurice wrote: View Post
Lance wrote: View Post
The idea was that maybe they could upscale it to movie size with lots of spectacle, but even then the effects house was being pushed against it's limits. Hence, alas, the memory wall was abandoned...
That's effects houses since it was Future General (Trumbull) and Apogee (Dykstra). Also, Trumbull was probably wise to suggest the change even if it wasn't for the effects budget. The sequence as scripted is slow and features a silly Raquel Welch moment. It's better that the journey is Spock's alone, and that it's over in a couple of minutes flat.
Pretty much, yeah.

Plus, look at the difference between those space suits - the pre-Trumbull one is just awful.
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Old March 21 2013, 01:11 AM   #32
Navigator_NCC2120
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Re: Yet another "Memory Wall" post

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Force the orifice open with a tractor beam? Not likely.

Scans couldn't penetrate it, and the whole reason Spock went on the spacewalk in the first place was to get information about the inner chamber. I would assume that communications were blocked too. In that case, there would be no way to get a lock on Spock to beam him out. I doubt the transporters could penetrate either, for that matter.

Phasers and photons, maybe, to blast a hole in? Sure, if Kirk would like to risk getting the Enterprise digitized, assuming they're even effective at all.

Yes, Spock would probably stay in beaming range, for whatever that would be worth. It would be a case of "so close and yet so far".


The following excerpt below is from memory-alpha, here is the link to it.

A tractor beam was an attenuated linear graviton beam used by starships and space stations to control the movement of external objects. The tractor beam placed spatial stresses on the object in specific areas, allowing it to hold the "tractored" object in a fixed location or alter its position and/or trajectory. While tractor beams were normally used to pull objects towards the beam source – usually to tow objects – conversely, they could also be set to repel objects. They were most often employed to tow a disabled or vulnerable ship to safety, or sometimes, used by an enemy ship to control the movement of the target vessel.
So I could easily see 4 shuttlecraft using their tractor beams, along with their engines, to exert enough force to either pull or push the orifice open wide enough in the 4 directions (up, down, left, and right) to allow the 5th shuttlecraft through it to rescue Spock.


I doubt the scanners operate at the same frequency and amplitude as the transporter beam. We have seen people transport through solid rock in the pilot episode "The Cage" and the Season 3 episode "The Cloud Minders". I would think the transporter beam's frequency and amplitude would be some where between x-rays and gamma rays frequency and amplitude in order to penetrate solid rock.

However, for the sake of argument lets say you are right and the transporter beam cannot penetrate the walls between V'ger's chambers. I still think rescuing Spock by beaming him back would be possible if the Enterprise launched a group of probes to act as transporter relays. For example, say each probe is about 1 yard (or 1 meter) or less in diameter and each probe is 25,000 miles away from each other at maximum. Each node in the network relay would be in contact with the node 25,000 miles in front of it and with the node 25,000 miles behind it, again that would be at maximum distance, though I doubt in this case the probes needed to be that far away from each other to locate Spock. With the the first node at the orifice with direct line of sight with the Enterprise's transporter beam and this first node is also in contact with the next node up to 25,000 miles away from it. That first node would be partially in both chambers to connect the Enterprise with the other relay nodes. Thus, Spock is beamed aboard the Enterprise.


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Last edited by Navigator_NCC2120; March 21 2013 at 02:30 AM.
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Old March 21 2013, 02:39 AM   #33
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Re: Yet another "Memory Wall" post

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Doe anyone else find those sets derivative of the interior of HAL 9000, with Kirk and Spock floating weightless in front of the memory wall, to boot?
It's funny you should say that. If you listen to the commentary track of the Directors Edition of TMP you will hear Special Photographic Effects Director Doug Trumbull refer to that moment where Spock floats into Kirk's arms as "here is a '2001' moment", referring of course to the scene in "2001: A Space Odyssey" where Frank Poole is floating weightless in space as Dave Bowman tries to catch/capture Frank with the EVA Pod's mechanical arms.


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Old March 22 2013, 05:51 PM   #34
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Re: Yet another "Memory Wall" post

Except that if you saw such a person to person capture in 2001 (as opposed to that film's capture by pod), you'd've seen realistic tumbling on the part of the catchee, instead of the rather lame "kirk anchored in space by planting his feet firmly on the floor" effect in the film.

Maybe they should have at least inverted the camera to distract away from that incongruity, or put in a flash of light or sound to indicate thrusters stabilizing him against Spock's impact.

What I really took away from that scene was that while it was okay for Spock to look like crap given what he has been through, Shatner looks positively horrible skinwise. It's like Trumbull shot it w/o a makeup or lighting crew, or maybe he just didn't care about that aspect. Considering how unflattering the lighting is in much of the rest of the film, maybe the latter.
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Old March 28 2013, 03:42 AM   #35
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Re: Yet another "Memory Wall" post

trevanian wrote: View Post
Except that if you saw such a person to person capture in 2001 (as opposed to that film's capture by pod), you'd've seen realistic tumbling on the part of the catchee, instead of the rather lame "kirk anchored in space by planting his feet firmly on the floor" effect in the film.

Maybe they should have at least inverted the camera to distract away from that incongruity, or put in a flash of light or sound to indicate thrusters stabilizing him against Spock's impact.
Agreed. Newton's Third Law of Motion: For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Link --> http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr161/l...wton3laws.html


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Old March 28 2013, 05:30 PM   #36
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Re: Yet another "Memory Wall" post

The worst example of this kind of thing is NEMESIS, where Shinzon frees his ship by firing in reverse, which should have just dragged the Enterprise along backwards with Scimitar.

Would have been more correct (and MUCH cooler) to have alternating forward and reverse firing side thrusters jerking and tearing the two ships apart a little at a time, and would justify a lot of nice sideways tossings of crew.
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Old March 28 2013, 05:31 PM   #37
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Re: Yet another "Memory Wall" post

Navigator_NCC2120 wrote: View Post
trevanian wrote: View Post
Except that if you saw such a person to person capture in 2001 (as opposed to that film's capture by pod), you'd've seen realistic tumbling on the part of the catchee, instead of the rather lame "kirk anchored in space by planting his feet firmly on the floor" effect in the film.

Maybe they should have at least inverted the camera to distract away from that incongruity, or put in a flash of light or sound to indicate thrusters stabilizing him against Spock's impact.
Agreed. Newton's Third Law of Motion: For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Link --> http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr161/l...wton3laws.html


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I thought of a weak explanation. We can image that Kirk ordered the Enterprise to put a tractor beam on him to keep him stationary. We can also image Kirk ordered the Enterprise to put a weaker tactor beam on Spock to guide Spock into Kirk's arms and to have the tractor beam on Spock absorb or reduce the speed of Spock's body so that stationary Kirk would not feel the force of Spock's body as Kirk "catches" Spock.

A weak explanation because we do not see Kirk give those orders and we do not see or "hear" the tractor beams on Kirk and Spock.


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Old March 28 2013, 07:14 PM   #38
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Re: Yet another "Memory Wall" post

trevanian wrote: View Post
The worst example of this kind of thing is NEMESIS, where Shinzon frees his ship by firing in reverse, which should have just dragged the Enterprise along backwards with Scimitar.
Far be it from me to defend Nemesis, but it might have worked if the Enterprise was in the line of any of the Scimitar's thruster exhaust. Of course, this wasn't made clear, and -- as is typical in "science" fiction movies these days -- acknowledging physics is to be avoided.

trevanian wrote: View Post
Would have been more correct (and MUCH cooler) to have alternating forward and reverse firing side thrusters jerking and tearing the two ships apart a little at a time, and would justify a lot of nice sideways tossings of crew.
Yes! That wouldn't have done much to redeem the movie, but it would have made an already impressive collision scene even more fun.
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Old March 28 2013, 09:40 PM   #39
trevanian
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Re: Yet another "Memory Wall" post

It's actually the lattice of coincidence at work, but we actually watched NEMESIS (all the way through!) on the weekend (to celebrate my finishing a very difficult article, my wife said, you can watch a trek movie... as long as it isn't insurrection.)

We spent most of the movie doing our version of Rifftrax with it, and my wife's were very funny, as she thinks she only saw it all the way through once before, so her derision felt fresh instead of practiced.

But it made me remember how there were a million things that could have been improvements on the thing, that the basic idea held some interest, but that the execution was godawful.
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Old April 1 2013, 02:51 AM   #40
Indysolo
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Re: Yet another "Memory Wall" post

This page has a photo of Nimoy in his memory wall suit while Clint Eastwood visits the set with his kids.

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Old April 17 2013, 11:14 AM   #41
Maab
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Re: Yet another "Memory Wall" post

Indysolo wrote: View Post
This page has a photo of Nimoy in his memory wall suit while Clint Eastwood visits the set with his kids.
Thank you Neil! I've added the picture to the gallery.

I also added the following one, but I have no idea of who the guy in the middle is.



Maab

The Memory Wall Pictures Collection
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