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Old March 20 2013, 03:37 PM   #31
Deranged Nasat
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Re: College: Gender Studies

junxon wrote: View Post
you realise you've jumped into a thread about whether someone should study something and shouted 'it's all lies!!!'
Of course I do. That's the point. People need to start standing up to the mistruths and distortions that are shaping our societies, and standing firm against ideologies that claim progressiveness while undermining all standards of scholarship, truth and humanitarianism.

I'm answering the OP's question whether you see it or not. The answer should be a very strong "No".
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Old March 20 2013, 03:39 PM   #32
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Re: College: Gender Studies

I've always thought of Feminism as an extremely broad and loose collection of different beliefs and ideologies, sharing a common goal of establishing equal rights and opportunities for women. Not necessarily sharing a common view on how to achieve that though.

A feminist could also be a masculinist, and vice versa, no?
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Old March 20 2013, 03:44 PM   #33
Deranged Nasat
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Re: College: Gender Studies

And junxon, this pretty much sums you up:


"Activism on behalf of the human rights of men and boys is difficult for several different reasons. One of the most obvious is a public narrative which takes the following form.
  • We live in a patriarchy;
  • Therefore women, and not men are oppressed;
  • Men are elevated and advantaged;
  • Therefore anyone advocating male human rights is really driven by misogyny;
  • And so, men’s rights organizations are hate organizations".
This narrative is incorrect; that is the point.
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Old March 20 2013, 03:45 PM   #34
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Re: College: Gender Studies

no.

i just want to be treated as an equal human being. clearly you don't see me as one.

i'm 'the enemy'

(also the OP's question was 'is a gender studies course going to be useful' not 'is feminism a lie')
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Old March 20 2013, 03:45 PM   #35
Deranged Nasat
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Re: College: Gender Studies

Pingfah wrote: View Post
I've always thought of Feminism as an extremely broad and loose collection of different beliefs and ideologies, sharing a common goal of establishing equal rights and opportunities for women. Not necessarily sharing a common view on how to achieve that though.

A feminist could also be a masculinist, and vice versa, no?
Read the first two of my linked articles, for starters.
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Old March 20 2013, 03:47 PM   #36
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Re: College: Gender Studies

junxon wrote: View Post
no.

i just want to be treated as an equal human being. clearly you don't see me as one.

i'm 'the enemy'
"Clearly".

Through the lens of feminism, I imagine it does seem clear, yes. But remove that lens, and look again. At a great many things, not just me.
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Old March 20 2013, 03:52 PM   #37
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Re: College: Gender Studies

Deranged Nasat wrote: View Post
Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
You know, feminists are not some group mind that all think and act in lockstep with each other. There are extremes in any group, and the group as a whole should not be judged by their worst examples. It sounds like you've had some pretty negative encounters or read some literature that have given you such a strong anti-feminist stance, but to dismiss the movement entirely based on that is shortsighted and unfair, IMO.

Can you imagine dismissing the entire Black civil rights movement based on a negative interaction with a few of its more militant supporters? Yet that's exactly what you are doing here regarding feminism and the struggle for equal rights for women, which is sadly not even close to being achieved in the US and the West, and especially not the rest of the world.

I just think you need to take a step back and examine where all of this anger is coming from and whether you're really giving an objective assessment of the feminist movement as a whole.
And you need to read some more of those linked articles, particularly the one pointing out the intellectual and moral dishonesty in comparing feminism to the Black civil rights movement.

And I see you're pushing the "oh, he must have had a bad experience and that makes him irrationally angry towards a whole group" line of reasoning. Sadly, most people will buy into it hook, line and sinker.
Don't start getting snippy with me. I like you, so I've given you plenty of slack compared with how I would usually respond to someone spouting the type of rhetoric you are. My comments weren't pushing anything. I said it sounds like you've either had a negative encounter or read a lot of literature which influenced your, frankly, rather extreme opinion. Are you going to tell me that's not the case, given the numerous times you've spoken about your personal life here before? Clearly the literature part is true, given the metric fuckton of links you posted. If it's not the case, just say so, don't start categorizing everyone who disagrees with you as giving a typical feminist type five response or whatever.

And I wasn't directly comparing women's rights to black civil rights in terms of scope or suffering (nor does it matter --inequality is inequality and should be addressed regardless), I was using an analogy about your shortsightedness in projecting the negative aspects of the most extreme examples of a group on to that group as a whole. Maybe if you weren't so obsessed with the idea that people are following some ridiculous feminist rhetorical playbook and instead just talked to people calmly and without some angry bias, you'd be able to have a rational conversation on the matter.
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Old March 20 2013, 03:53 PM   #38
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Re: College: Gender Studies

Pingfah wrote: View Post
I've always thought of Feminism as an extremely broad and loose collection of different beliefs and ideologies, sharing a common goal of establishing equal rights and opportunities for women. Not necessarily sharing a common view on how to achieve that though.

A feminist could also be a masculinist, and vice versa, no?
True. Being a feminist is being an equalitarian first and foremost, and there are many different ways to achieve that.

Contemporary gender studies, on the other hand, are not, in my opinion, necessarily feminist, and they are more often that not a very sterile and dogmatic branch of social science.
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Old March 20 2013, 03:53 PM   #39
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Re: College: Gender Studies

nasat, that's 'no i dont see women as equals' then.

you can wrap me up in some kind of feminazi package if you want but everyone here knows you're on the wrong side of the arguement
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Old March 20 2013, 03:54 PM   #40
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Re: College: Gender Studies

Collingwood Nick wrote: View Post
Quite frankly I have no idea what he's talking about, nor do I care...
Enough said.

Deranged Nasat wrote: View Post
And why is it "pretty stupid shit", pray tell?
Go on, live in the real world and find out. I can't spoon feed you.
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Old March 20 2013, 03:55 PM   #41
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Re: College: Gender Studies

Deranged Nasat wrote: View Post
And junxon, this pretty much sums you up:


"Activism on behalf of the human rights of men and boys is difficult for several different reasons. One of the most obvious is a public narrative which takes the following form.
  • We live in a patriarchy;
  • Therefore women, and not men are oppressed;
  • Men are elevated and advantaged;
  • Therefore anyone advocating male human rights is really driven by misogyny;
  • And so, men’s rights organizations are hate organizations".
This narrative is incorrect; that is the point.
That narrative is not incorrect, at least in the broad strokes. Why do you claim it is? What is your evidence? Don't link to blogs, use your own words. Excerpt other sources if you must, but I want to see you actually articulate why you believe this, rather than spout it as a fact.
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Old March 20 2013, 04:03 PM   #42
Locutus of Bored
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Re: College: Gender Studies

Deranged Nasat wrote: View Post
And junxon, this pretty much sums you up:

"Activism on behalf of the human rights of men and boys is difficult for several different reasons. One of the most obvious is a public narrative which takes the following form.
  • We live in a patriarchy;
  • Therefore women, and not men are oppressed;
  • Men are elevated and advantaged;
  • Therefore anyone advocating male human rights is really driven by misogyny;
  • And so, men’s rights organizations are hate organizations".
This narrative is incorrect; that is the point.
Are you having a debate with some imaginary person in the thread? No one said men can't be oppressed, that anyone advocating for male rights is by default a misogynist, or that all men's rights organizations are by definition hate groups. Certainly some are, just as White Pride groups and other groups that seek to portray the dominant group as victims often have a certain bent, but it's not guaranteed by any means.

Stick with what's on the page before you start posting wild ass straw man arguments based on jack and shit.
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Old March 20 2013, 04:08 PM   #43
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Re: College: Gender Studies

and nasat, this pretty much sums you up:

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Old March 20 2013, 04:08 PM   #44
Pingfah
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Re: College: Gender Studies

Deranged Nasat wrote: View Post
Pingfah wrote: View Post
I've always thought of Feminism as an extremely broad and loose collection of different beliefs and ideologies, sharing a common goal of establishing equal rights and opportunities for women. Not necessarily sharing a common view on how to achieve that though.

A feminist could also be a masculinist, and vice versa, no?
Read the first two of my linked articles, for starters.
Have done. I see a huge amount of historical assertions made with absolutely no sources to back them up, and a great number of views being described as fundamental to Feminists (i.e. if you don't believe this then you aren't a feminist) which many self described Feminists would probably take great umbrage at.

You seem to be displaying this behaviour throughout the thread as well, tarring people with assumptions about their stances and beliefs.
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Old March 20 2013, 04:10 PM   #45
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Re: College: Gender Studies

As the secretary general of Matriarchy International I would like to apologize for violence on men, the insane amount of female wealth accumulated through divorces and the over-representation of women in media, politics and the economic elite.

I hereby declare that the women of the Western World give up their right to vote and the right to property to make up for this injustice.

I also promise to return the brains we extracted from a high number of men who as a result of that procedure seem to live in an alternate reality.
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