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Old March 19 2013, 03:39 PM   #16
BillJ
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Re: The "Matt Decker" Moment

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
This was neither Decker's or Maxwell's attitude nor intention. Captain Maxwell was frustrated and embittered but he wouldn't cross this line and start a war with the Cardassians at the expense of Starfleet and his fellow officers.
Deckers situation was entirely different but he'd have had no issue sacrificing the Enterprise crew in his obviously futile attempt to destroy the Doomsday Machine from the outside. And Maxwell executed at least six hundred-fifty Cardassians before Picard intervened.

Both had no issue sacrificing fellow Starfleet personnel in order to achieve their objectives.
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Old March 19 2013, 04:24 PM   #17
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Re: The "Matt Decker" Moment

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
^^ Now you added Captain Ben Maxwell to the comparison and Mr. Tracey is still part of it.

I don't remember one bit of dialogue that established Mr. Tracey got insane or that his reactions are the result of a nervous breakdown for which he can't be held responsible.

And Dr. McCoy was there all the time to give us a diagnosis. The absence of such a diagnosis rather suggests that Mr. Tracey was working on all his thrusters, IMHO.
McCoy had his hands full trying to figure out how to safely return to Enterprise. Certifying Captain Tracey as insane wouldn't be a productive use of time. They still had to deal with him, whatever his mental state.

Apparently he had started to like the prospect that he had become the master of this planet thanks to superior firepower and even when Kirk told him to come on and let's leave the planet he resisted and in the end blackmailed his fellow Starfleet officers: If you don't do as I want, I'll make sure we all go down together.
Maybe so, but that doesn't mean he wasn't insane.

This was neither Decker's or Maxwell's attitude nor intention. Captain Maxwell was frustrated and embittered but he wouldn't cross this line and start a war with the Cardassians at the expense of Starfleet and his fellow officers.
What? That's what Captain Maxwell did, though. He nearly started a war with the Cardassians. They didn't believe that Maxwell was rogue. Picard had to defuse the situation, but Maxwell damn near did start a new war.

I can understand and even sympathize for Kirk's actions in "Obsession", Matt Decker's in "The Doomsday-Machine" and Ben Maxwell's in "The Wounded". With Mr. Tracey it's different because I see him mostly motivated by selfish reasons.

Bob
That's because you insist that Tracey was sane and just a criminal opportunist. If he was, though, then how did he become a starship captain?
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Old March 19 2013, 05:09 PM   #18
George Steinbrenner
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Re: The "Matt Decker" Moment

Decker may have become unhinged, but his intention was only to destroy the planet killer. He didn't violate the Prime Directive; he didn't murder innocent Enterprise crewmen; he didn't imprison Kirk and company against their will. Tracey wanted power; Decker wanted to finish the job and atone for the deaths of his crew.
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Old March 19 2013, 05:44 PM   #19
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Re: The "Matt Decker" Moment

No matter what they did, both Decker and Tracey lost their crews to unforeseen consequences. They were both traumatized by their circumstances. Decker was unhinged, and so was Tracey. If the circumstances were swapped, who knows how Tracey would've reacted to the planetkiller or how Decker would've reacted to Omega IV and its seeming potential for humanoid immortality?

Starship captains go crazy sometimes. It is likely a hazard of the personality types that strive for starship command in the first place.
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Old March 19 2013, 05:57 PM   #20
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Re: The "Matt Decker" Moment

Pavonis wrote: View Post
Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
I obviously have severe problems trying to understand the excuses made here on behalf of Mr. Tracey who essentially is a spineless opportunist who just tries to save his skin and at the expense of his fellow Starfleet shipmates.
The only excuse needed is that Ron Tracey was insane.

Sorry, to remotely compare this jerk to the likes of Jim Kirk or Matt Decker, is like insulting either one of them.
We never saw Capt. Tracey in action, only the insane remnant of the man that he was. Why assume he was some kind of jerk before the incident? He did reach the prestigious position of starship captain. Is it so hard to believe that he was a different man before his crew was killed off?
I chalk it up to PTSD. Like the U.S. and Canadian military so long ago (can't speak for other nations) - Starfleet failed to properly identify and/or look after members. Capt Tracey just snapped.
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Old March 19 2013, 05:57 PM   #21
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Re: The "Matt Decker" Moment

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Decker may have become unhinged, but his intention was only to destroy the planet killer. He didn't violate the Prime Directive; he didn't murder innocent Enterprise crewmen; he didn't imprison Kirk and company against their will. Tracey wanted power; Decker wanted to finish the job and atone for the deaths of his crew.
In fact, up to the point where he knocked out the security guard and stole the shuttlecraft, Decker didn't even do anything that violated regulations. He was, as Spock agreed with, entitled to assume command of the Enterprise. And was within his rights, as commander, to order an attack on the planet killer. That may have been a mistake in judgment, but it wasn't against the rules.
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Old March 19 2013, 06:07 PM   #22
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Re: The "Matt Decker" Moment

CoveTom wrote: View Post
He was, as Spock agreed with, entitled to assume command of the Enterprise.
He was also on a short-leash. Just as Kirk was on a short-leash as the events of Obsession unfolded.
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Old March 19 2013, 06:21 PM   #23
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Re: The "Matt Decker" Moment

What actually seemed to tick Kirk off was another character risking ''his'' ship. ''Not with my ship, you don't!'' A commander is responsible for the lives of his crew, Decker said. One year previous to that, Kirk said on the record: ''Nothing is more important than my ship.'' Granted, Decker lost 430 or so of his crew in one pop. Kirk lost 60 or so in several years. Kirk eventually lost his own ship AND Decker's.
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Old March 19 2013, 06:22 PM   #24
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Re: The "Matt Decker" Moment

Decker was entitled to command Enterprise, but he was clearly not fit to be doing so. I'm surprised that Decker wasn't immediately taken to Sickbay when he was brought aboard; that would've given McCoy a chance to certify him unfit to command, seeing as he was "emotionally compromised" by the mission (if Regulation 619 existed during the time of TOS).
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Old March 19 2013, 06:25 PM   #25
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Re: The "Matt Decker" Moment

Pavonis wrote: View Post
(if Regulation 619 existed during the time of TOS).
You trying to raise the ire of the luddites?
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Old March 19 2013, 06:26 PM   #26
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Re: The "Matt Decker" Moment

The much-dreaded Medical Log Entry capable of removing Captains seemed to originate with OBSESSION, which of course, came after DOOMSDAY MACHINE. This M.L.E. actually makes McCoy the most powerful person on the ship despite not being able to take command.
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Old March 19 2013, 06:30 PM   #27
Pavonis
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Re: The "Matt Decker" Moment

Well, surely the medical officer must have the right to make an examination of all officers if he or she doubts the fitness for duty. Making McCoy say that he hadn't had a chance to examine Decker, and therefore preventing McCoy from relieving Decker of command, is a catch-22, isn't it? He can't relieve Decker of command without an examination, but he can't examine him without relieving of him command. On the face of it, it makes McCoy powerless.

There must be a regulation, even if TOS, that would allow an officer to be relieved due to medical unfitness without necessarily examining him or her first.
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Old March 19 2013, 06:30 PM   #28
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Re: The "Matt Decker" Moment

foxhot wrote: View Post
This M.L.E. actually makes McCoy the most powerful person on the ship despite not being able to take command.
Not really. He still had to have another senior officer present. It doesn't seem too different from what went on in The Doomsday Machine. Just a different name.
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Old March 19 2013, 11:55 PM   #29
George Steinbrenner
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Re: The "Matt Decker" Moment

Pavonis wrote: View Post
No matter what they did, both Decker and Tracey lost their crews to unforeseen consequences. They were both traumatized by their circumstances.
Tracey did not seem particularly traumatized by what happened. He didn't appear to even CARE what happened to his crew, or if he did, merely shrugged it off and continued his massacres of the Yangs. That's not something a good man does.
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Old March 20 2013, 02:04 AM   #30
Pavonis
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Re: The "Matt Decker" Moment

The difference is that Decker was found almost immediately after the incident that killed his crew. Tracey was encountered after 6 months on his own.
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