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Old January 13 2012, 08:02 AM   #76
Reverend
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Re: SPACE: Above and Beyond - Reviews and general geekiness

Admiral2 wrote: View Post
stueyross wrote: View Post
Plese forgive me if this isnt 100% accurate, as Im recalling stuff from memory here....

A couple of posters had asked what happened to the show and why it was only given one season. Expense was certainly part of that, but the show also got pre-empted a fair bit and didnt have a fantasic slot in the schedule.

At the time, Fox had another major sci fi hit on their hands that you'll most likely have heard of: The X Files. Morgan and Wong (the S:AAB creators had been writing for that show and were responsible for some of the major stories and the way the show developed. When they jumped ship and started up S:AAB, Chris Carter (daddy of the x-files) wasnt best pleased, and by all accounts managed to pull in some favours from Fox and have the show.....disrespected.
Chris Carter was a believer of his own hype. He seemed to believe that human conflict with aliens would only happen the way it was depicted on X-Files. (he also reportedly hated Indepndence Day for the same reason.)
Well that's just ridiculous. There are *much* better reasons to dislike Independence Day than that!
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Old January 14 2012, 08:34 PM   #77
Admiral2
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Re: SPACE: Above and Beyond - Reviews and general geekiness

Reverend wrote: View Post
Admiral2 wrote: View Post
stueyross wrote: View Post
Plese forgive me if this isnt 100% accurate, as Im recalling stuff from memory here....

A couple of posters had asked what happened to the show and why it was only given one season. Expense was certainly part of that, but the show also got pre-empted a fair bit and didnt have a fantasic slot in the schedule.

At the time, Fox had another major sci fi hit on their hands that you'll most likely have heard of: The X Files. Morgan and Wong (the S:AAB creators had been writing for that show and were responsible for some of the major stories and the way the show developed. When they jumped ship and started up S:AAB, Chris Carter (daddy of the x-files) wasnt best pleased, and by all accounts managed to pull in some favours from Fox and have the show.....disrespected.
Chris Carter was a believer of his own hype. He seemed to believe that human conflict with aliens would only happen the way it was depicted on X-Files. (he also reportedly hated Indepndence Day for the same reason.)
Well that's just ridiculous. There are *much* better reasons to dislike Independence Day than that!
I'm just saying that was his reason.
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Old March 19 2013, 06:51 PM   #78
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Re: SPACE: Above and Beyond - Reviews and general geekiness

saturn5 wrote: View Post
I'm afraid you have to chalk that up to the cliches of storytelling, like Captain Kirk leading every away party or The Unit's members being able to blend into every enviroment, the series wanted to explore every aspect of the war but keep the continuity of the characters
I'm reading through this thread since I am nearing the end of watching Space Above and Beyond, but I find myself wondering what Star Trek would be like if it were more like real life command structure:

Star Trek opens showing the bridge. A situation is discovered. A landing party is created. Rather than risk people like the Captain, Science Officer, or the Chief Medical Officers, all of which Starfleet has invested years of training and development, subordinates are chosen.

Actually I liked the episode of Star Trek Next Generation when Wesley Crusher was given the assignment to pull together a landing party. He evaluated the facts, looked at the possible people and worked from there. No command staff sent on that mission.

So in this setup you could have some repeats, but you could also have new actors and actresses get a start as the show would feature all kinds of new faces. Many short stories arced together by a common command staff that in of themselves are changed out from time to time.

On the grimier missions the Captain would be negotiating from orbit while the landing party works things out. Some landing parties might actually get completely wiped out (which we saw on Star Trek anyway.) But in some cases, people other than Kirk can show intiative and be promoted through the ranks. Disciplined, etc. A lot more lower decks in this format.

And naturally if there were meetings of high ranking people on the planet, the Captain and other high ranking persons would attend.

(Come to think of it, bring it back to Space Above and Beyond, that was the cool thing about COLONEL McQueen being grounded, to be prevented from being another Kirk).

Last edited by Doctor Clu; March 19 2013 at 07:09 PM.
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Old March 19 2013, 07:08 PM   #79
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Re: SPACE: Above and Beyond - Reviews and general geekiness

saturn5 wrote: View Post
So be it, but I would gladly have chipped in to pay Kristen Cloke Jennifer Aniston's salary because I'd rather have a couple of years of Space than eight years of "The One Where Phoebe says something else goofy and Ross acts nebbishy."
LOL! Loved the spoof of the typical Friends episode title.

Forbin wrote: View Post
I seem to recall a scene that was probably driven by fan criticism, wherein McQueen addresses the troops: "I've heard some whining about having to be both pilots AND ground pounders. May I remind you that you are Marines, and you will do whatever you are ordered to do!"

And that was the end of that discussion!
Well, if Col McQueen says it, I would leave that alone as well. But at least the show addressed that question directly. Funny that they turned a fan concern into a concern the crew would have voiced as well.

saturn5 wrote: View Post
Forbin wrote: View Post
This thread got me amped, so I just watched Never No More and Angriest Angel again. Good lord, that was a good fracking show!!!
New BSG certainly thought so. Have you watched 'Who Monitors the Birds?' yet?
Never No More... just made me ache seeing her ache like that. Made me wanna say in her sadness "Pick me!!" :P

As for New BSG, I see MANY similiarities between Space and New BSG. One I like, the other I don't. The problem I have is how they are presented the context and backdrop of the story as both are presented in the same way. For Space that presentation of a world with suits and ties and bullets works since they are from the near future Earth. That same method does not work for New BSG as they were heading TO Earth

Lindley wrote: View Post
Joss Whedon named "Who Monitors the Birds" as one of his inspirations for Buffy's "Hush".
I was thinking it reminded me of Hush when I watched that episode. Amazing.

[QUOTE=Admiral2;5568361]
saturn5 wrote: View Post
Yes, but Dharma and Greg rocked. That was a funny show!
Best thing about Dharma and Greg, they meet, and rather than go through a long painful courtship, they couragiously jump to marriage. LOVED THAT. It was great theropy since I was just out of a long relationship (two years) at the time. And when I found my lady (now married... holy crap, how long has it been? Fifteen years... I did more or less what Dharma and Greg did.)

Ok, forgive me, you all had some good stuff to say on page three of this thread. Back to work, and maybe some replies on the stuff that came after.
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Old March 20 2013, 01:35 AM   #80
Admiral2
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Re: SPACE: Above and Beyond - Reviews and general geekiness

Doctor Clu wrote: View Post
saturn5 wrote: View Post
I'm afraid you have to chalk that up to the cliches of storytelling, like Captain Kirk leading every away party or The Unit's members being able to blend into every enviroment, the series wanted to explore every aspect of the war but keep the continuity of the characters
I'm reading through this thread since I am nearing the end of watching Space Above and Beyond, but I find myself wondering what Star Trek would be like if it were more like real life command structure:

Star Trek opens showing the bridge. A situation is discovered. A landing party is created. Rather than risk people like the Captain, Science Officer, or the Chief Medical Officers, all of which Starfleet has invested years of training and development, subordinates are chosen.

Actually I liked the episode of Star Trek Next Generation when Wesley Crusher was given the assignment to pull together a landing party. He evaluated the facts, looked at the possible people and worked from there. No command staff sent on that mission.

So in this setup you could have some repeats, but you could also have new actors and actresses get a start as the show would feature all kinds of new faces. Many short stories arced together by a common command staff that in of themselves are changed out from time to time.

On the grimier missions the Captain would be negotiating from orbit while the landing party works things out. Some landing parties might actually get completely wiped out (which we saw on Star Trek anyway.) But in some cases, people other than Kirk can show intiative and be promoted through the ranks. Disciplined, etc. A lot more lower decks in this format.

And naturally if there were meetings of high ranking people on the planet, the Captain and other high ranking persons would attend.

(Come to think of it, bring it back to Space Above and Beyond, that was the cool thing about COLONEL McQueen being grounded, to be prevented from being another Kirk).
The problem isn't one of command structure. The problem is one of opening credits, as in the the most prominent name in the opening credits tends to get the most screen time overall in the series.

In ST:TOS, Bill Shatner was the most prominent name out of two (then three) names in the intro, so he had to get the most face time, which meant if they were landing on a planet The Shat had to be there to get the most outta what Desilu was paying him. Common Sense and "command Structure" be damned.

By the time they got onto ST:TNG, common sense had started to creep in and the creators realized "maybe we do need to keep the captain's behind on the ship," so they cast a First Officer that would be more than just a sidekick (Patrick Stewart, then Jonathan Frakes in the intro) and gave him the job of running away teams. Of course Picard indulged and beamed down himself on occasion, but not every away mission because he could still be featured prominently on the show staying on the ship. Technically, the command structure governing both shows was exactly the same. The characters were just given different roles to play.

Now, taking the trek analogy over to S:AAB, the prominent names in the credits are the names of the permanent away team. The focus of the show is the away team's exploits, not the exploits of the captain (Commodore Ross) so the captain doesn't have to land anywhere. He doesn't even have to appear in every episode. (And he doesn't.) It also isn't about the adventures of the ship in general, so the Saratoga doesn't get dunked into black holes or get shifted through time or encounter giant space amoebas. It's about the 58th squadron fighting a planet-hopping war, so the 58th squadron is who we see actually do the planet-hopping.

So the moral is: if you want the away to do away team work and you want the captain to stay on the ship, then you have to give the away team portrayers better contracts than the captain.
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