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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old March 13 2013, 12:34 PM   #61
BillJ
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Re: Campaign to Restore William Shatner's STV TFF for Blu-ray spec. ed

JamesRye wrote: View Post
I'd also like a directors cut, but I doubt that the producers of the newer Trek movies would welcome it because the film might put people off from watching any more Trek movies!


You obviously saw an alternate-universe version of the movie, because the one in this universe was quite bad. I'm a TOS homer and I can only stand to watch it every three or so years.
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Old March 13 2013, 12:38 PM   #62
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Re: Campaign to Restore William Shatner's STV TFF for Blu-ray spec. ed

I think he's saying that reminding people of TFF might put people off watching the new Trek movie...
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Old March 13 2013, 02:35 PM   #63
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Re: Campaign to Restore William Shatner's STV TFF for Blu-ray spec. ed

Shazam! wrote: View Post
I think he's saying that reminding people of TFF might put people off watching the new Trek movie...
That's exactly what I was trying to say. It might be off putting for the people new to Star Trek.
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Old March 13 2013, 02:43 PM   #64
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Re: Campaign to Restore William Shatner's STV TFF for Blu-ray spec. ed

The studio’s desire to make Star Trek VI the last original series movie was, in my opinion a terrible marketing move. Star Trek VI would be the 15th highest grossing film of 1991 and have the best opening weekend of any movie up to that date. Star Trek VI had a worldwide take of around a hundred million dollars from a twenty five million dollar budget. This profit excludes VHS, DVD and now Blu-Ray sales.

Meanwhile TNG was acheiving massive ratings on TV and interviews from the time suggest that none of the cast wanted it to end. Furthermore, when they did make Generations, it was done on the cheap.
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Old March 14 2013, 01:15 AM   #65
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Re: Campaign to Restore William Shatner's STV TFF for Blu-ray spec. ed

The eleventh film in the franchise isn't that far removed in tone from the fifth at times. Comparing the look of those films is as far removed as TOS is from Star Wars though. It doesn't help that the FX aren't even up to standard of Star Treks either side of it, which compare more favourably to 2009. Obviously a lower budget and fewer FX shots, but impressive and beautiful when they do happen.

Uhura's fandance is no more awful than numb tongue and casting aspersions about Kirk enjoying farmyard animals.

In both instances, I always sit wishing there had been a better way to get that bit of storytelling from A to B. You need to distract some guards. You need to get Kirk into a scrap or impart information about a lightning storm. There are ways and means, which don't involve stooping to those kind of lows. In my opinion obviously. As if any of my keystrokes are likely to be anyone else's!
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Old March 14 2013, 04:07 AM   #66
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Re: Campaign to Restore William Shatner's STV TFF for Blu-ray spec. ed

JamesRye wrote: View Post
The studio’s desire to make Star Trek VI the last original series movie was, in my opinion a terrible marketing move. Star Trek VI would be the 15th highest grossing film of 1991 and have the best opening weekend of any movie up to that date. Star Trek VI had a worldwide take of around a hundred million dollars from a twenty five million dollar budget. This profit excludes VHS, DVD and now Blu-Ray sales.

Meanwhile TNG was acheiving massive ratings on TV and interviews from the time suggest that none of the cast wanted it to end. Furthermore, when they did make Generations, it was done on the cheap.
No, they made the right call. Even if Paramount could have still afforded Shatner & Co., they would've gotten two more films (at best) out of them before DeForest Kelley would've gotten too sick to go on. And TNG was just about out of gas story-wise by the end of the seventh season - any longer and it would've gotten as bad as Voyager ended up becoming.

In fact, VOY was a large part of the reason Generations was done so cheap and why the TNG crew barely got to pause for breath after the series finale before launching into the movie - they had to tear down the Enterprise-D sets to replace them with the Voyager sets in time for a January '95 premiere.
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Old March 14 2013, 02:49 PM   #67
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Re: Campaign to Restore William Shatner's STV TFF for Blu-ray spec. ed

I think we can both agree that the franchise (I hate that term) needed Voyager, like The Motion Picture needed some longer special effects sequences. Probably there was just too much going on at that time.
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Old March 14 2013, 06:51 PM   #68
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Re: Campaign to Restore William Shatner's STV TFF for Blu-ray spec. ed

Maybe a Kickstart campaign should be started. Look what it did for Veronica Mars.
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Old March 16 2013, 02:30 AM   #69
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Re: Campaign to Restore William Shatner's STV TFF for Blu-ray spec. ed

bbailey861 wrote: View Post
Maybe a Kickstart campaign should be started. Look what it did for Veronica Mars.

http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml
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Old March 16 2013, 02:51 AM   #70
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Re: Campaign to Restore William Shatner's STV TFF for Blu-ray spec. ed

ChristopherPike wrote: View Post
The eleventh film in the franchise isn't that far removed in tone from the fifth at times.
True, which is one reason why I didn't like JJ Trek. However, the audience's perception of humor has changed. Look at how many people enjoy watching skateboard wipeouts on Youtube. Also, the humor within the context of actors in their 50s and 60s is different from humor within the context of 20-somethings. Slapstick is really better with young actors.

For instance, when Scotty hits his head on the beam in Trek V, it makes people take him even less seriously as a senior officer than they would because of Doohan's advanced age and portly physique. It destroys your suspension of disbelief and makes you think you're watching a Naked Gun movie. When Simon Pegg does his Willy Wonka trip through the tubes, people accept it more because he is young and hip and it's all in good fun. For some reason it doesn't pull people out of the world the way you think it should. It does for me, because I'm a Trek Snob(TM), but not for mainstream audiences.

The TOS cast were criticized for being too old to cut the mustard all the way back to TMP. You have to be very very careful how you inject humor. It was done tastefully in Trek IV, but not tastefully enough in Trek V. The audience started laughing AT the cast instead of with them.

Trek V feels like a cast reunion in which the actors rarely ever truly appear "in-character", which was, I think, Shatner's doing. He made them act in a very casual way, which made them more personable, which was good, but also less believable as senior officers in positions of respect and high-authority, and this was directly opposed to what the franchise had set in motion with the stiff TMP and the sweet spot of Khan where Kirk is the seasoned pro with occasional bouts of winking and rule-breaking.
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Old March 16 2013, 06:18 PM   #71
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Re: Campaign to Restore William Shatner's STV TFF for Blu-ray spec. ed

mos6507 wrote: View Post
ChristopherPike wrote: View Post
The eleventh film in the franchise isn't that far removed in tone from the fifth at times.
True, which is one reason why I didn't like JJ Trek. However, the audience's perception of humor has changed. Look at how many people enjoy watching skateboard wipeouts on Youtube. Also, the humor within the context of actors in their 50s and 60s is different from humor within the context of 20-somethings. Slapstick is really better with young actors.

For instance, when Scotty hits his head on the beam in Trek V, it makes people take him even less seriously as a senior officer than they would because of Doohan's advanced age and portly physique. It destroys your suspension of disbelief and makes you think you're watching a Naked Gun movie. When Simon Pegg does his Willy Wonka trip through the tubes, people accept it more because he is young and hip and it's all in good fun. For some reason it doesn't pull people out of the world the way you think it should. It does for me, because I'm a Trek Snob(TM), but not for mainstream audiences.

The TOS cast were criticized for being too old to cut the mustard all the way back to TMP. You have to be very very careful how you inject humor. It was done tastefully in Trek IV, but not tastefully enough in Trek V. The audience started laughing AT the cast instead of with them.

Trek V feels like a cast reunion in which the actors rarely ever truly appear "in-character", which was, I think, Shatner's doing. He made them act in a very casual way, which made them more personable, which was good, but also less believable as senior officers in positions of respect and high-authority, and this was directly opposed to what the franchise had set in motion with the stiff TMP and the sweet spot of Khan where Kirk is the seasoned pro with occasional bouts of winking and rule-breaking.
That was really well put. I read those words and realized that's exactly what I was feeling but had never voiced or written it.

By 1989 the cast was already a kind of cultural in-joke--their accents, their advancing age, Doohan's weight---they needed to do eveything in their power to make them be taken seriously for a dramatic engaging story and TFF does the exact opposite--it makes audience think they are seeing a campy reunion rather than the exciting story they actually wanted.

Cutting all that nonsense would reduce the movie to under 90 minutes and it couldn't be rebuilt into any kind of strong story.

still I kind of wish they would try......
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Old March 19 2013, 01:20 AM   #72
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Re: Campaign to Restore William Shatner's STV TFF for Blu-ray spec. ed

mos6507 wrote: View Post
Trek V feels like a cast reunion in which the actors rarely ever truly appear "in-character", which was, I think, Shatner's doing. He made them act in a very casual way, which made them more personable, which was good, but also less believable as senior officers in positions of respect and high-authority, and this was directly opposed to what the franchise had set in motion with the stiff TMP and the sweet spot of Khan where Kirk is the seasoned pro with occasional bouts of winking and rule-breaking.
Think you could say the same for TSFS or TVH, yet they were succesfull or better executed.

Grant wrote: View Post
Cutting all that nonsense would reduce the movie to under 90 minutes and it couldn't be rebuilt into any kind of strong story.

still I kind of wish they would try......
Ok, take out the nonsense and replace it with the rock creature, guess it would take it over 90 minutes.
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Old March 19 2013, 10:42 PM   #73
Grant
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Re: Campaign to Restore William Shatner's STV TFF for Blu-ray spec. ed

wjaspers wrote: View Post
mos6507 wrote: View Post
Trek V feels like a cast reunion in which the actors rarely ever truly appear "in-character", which was, I think, Shatner's doing. He made them act in a very casual way, which made them more personable, which was good, but also less believable as senior officers in positions of respect and high-authority, and this was directly opposed to what the franchise had set in motion with the stiff TMP and the sweet spot of Khan where Kirk is the seasoned pro with occasional bouts of winking and rule-breaking.
Think you could say the same for TSFS or TVH, yet they were succesfull or better executed.

Grant wrote: View Post
Cutting all that nonsense would reduce the movie to under 90 minutes and it couldn't be rebuilt into any kind of strong story.

still I kind of wish they would try......
Ok, take out the nonsense and replace it with the rock creature, guess it would take it over 90 minutes.

True and there were some other deleted scenes NOT on the DVD that appeared to be more serious and not silly that could be inserted--McCoy healing a fed soldier and McCoy/Spock talking about the creature at the end before kirk walks up. Could get the movie up to 1 hr 40 min.
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Old March 20 2013, 12:28 AM   #74
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Re: Campaign to Restore William Shatner's STV TFF for Blu-ray spec. ed

I've read the shooting script. The only significant material that isn't on the DVD is:

1. McCoy's comeback to Kirk's 'drop in for dinner' line: "That's right, turn it all into a joke. Dammit Jim, are you that anxious to meet your Maker?"
2: A deleted line from Vixis when Klaa learns the Enterprise is going to Nimbus: "'There will be no peace as long as Kirk lives.' (quoting the Klingon Ambassador from the the last movie) Our Empire's highest bounty has been placed on his head."
3: As the Gailileo heads down to Nimbus, Kirk notices Spock looking disturbed. "You okay, Spock?" "I am fine, Captain. (on Kirk's look) Damn fine."
4: The aforementioned McCoy helping a redshirt scene. "Haven't seen a wound like that since med school - these people are savages." (hands the redshirt the 'bullet') "Here's a souvenir. Stay off that leg for at least two minutes."
5: The aforementioned Spock/McCoy lines near the end in the lounge before Kirk shows up:
McCoy - "Try this on for size. Has it occurred to you that the Great Barrier wasn't put there to keep us out...but to keep that thing in?"
Spock - "It has occurred to me."
McCoy - "Well? Doesn't that imply the existence of a higher power?"
Spock - "I will say this much, Doctor - we have yet to truly reach the final frontier."

That's it. That's all that's missing. Other than that, the missing Rockmen and the DVD deleted scenes, what Shatner and Loughery wrote is what's on the screen.
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Old March 20 2013, 12:38 AM   #75
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Re: Campaign to Restore William Shatner's STV TFF for Blu-ray spec. ed

I'm a diehard TOS fan and honestly - if they lost all original negatives, copies of the scripts, etc. for STV:TFF, and it disappeared entirely from the public consciousness; I wouldn't shed a tear.
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