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General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

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Old March 19 2013, 09:31 AM   #91
Nightdiamond
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

Considering the number of times the ship was in danger or had to be evacuated, it was a bad idea.

And yet it seemed like a cool idea and an impractical one at the same time.

The men's uniform skirt was another idea that was pretty bad. It was pushing the notion of sexual equality to a weird level.

I've seen certain Trek characters talk as if certain jobs were beneath them. So why would anyone want to serve as a butler or maid in the 24th century, like the woman who was Data's maid in A.G.T?

Especially when no one needs to work for money, or uses it on earth.
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Old March 19 2013, 11:14 AM   #92
Lance
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

sonak wrote: View Post
his later ideas seemed to be worse-the whole "evolved, enlightened Humanity" thing, plus the wacky idea that Starfleet wasn't military.
^ This.

My working theory is that he got confused at some point during the 'convention circuit' years in the 1970s. There's no doubt that TOS was infused with certain ideas which were revolutionary, and that Trek's view of the future has always been more optimisitic than pessimistic. But somewhere during that decade away from the franchise, where he was often asked to wax lyricial about his thoughts on humanity's future and how they related to the world of Star Trek, Roddenberry's ideals got mixed up with what TOS actually was: an action-adventure series, Horatio Hornblower in outer space. The result of this confusion permeated the Phase II series pitch, as well as TMP; and Roddenberry returned to it for TNG. But it's not really at the core of Star Trek. It never was.

The "Starfleet is not a military" thing was always particularly :facepalm: worthy to me. You don't have an organisation on board vast ships, who talk in terms of fleets and formations and battle maneuvers; who address each other with naval terms and use naval ranks; and try and pass them off as not being a military. Undoubtedly, Starfleet is a benign military. But their role is still broadly the same: peacekeeping, diplomacy, exploration, and yes, even occasionally engaging an enemy. Roddenberry's ideals were noble ones, but they sat uneasily within Star Trek's format IMHO.
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Old March 19 2013, 12:16 PM   #93
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

BillJ wrote: View Post
JoeZhang wrote: View Post
James T. Kirk is named after his mum's 'Love instructor'.
I planned on just leaving that one alone. Gene was obviously experimenting with the pharmaceuticals when he came up with that one.
You have to wonder that to get an A on the test, instead of offering sexual favours to the instructor, the students offer to write an assignment.

"Gee John, I'm really don't know what to do - I was teaching oral sex 101 and one of the students offered to write me a 5000 report instead of blowing me, should I report them?"
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Old March 19 2013, 01:27 PM   #94
The Wormhole
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

Nightdiamond wrote: View Post
I've seen certain Trek characters talk as if certain jobs were beneath them. So why would anyone want to serve as a butler or maid in the 24th century, like the woman who was Data's maid in A.G.T?
She was a holographic maid. What? He had a holographic fireplace, why not a maid?
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Old March 19 2013, 07:57 PM   #95
Nightdiamond
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Nightdiamond wrote: View Post
I've seen certain Trek characters talk as if certain jobs were beneath them. So why would anyone want to serve as a butler or maid in the 24th century, like the woman who was Data's maid in A.G.T?
She was a holographic maid. What? He had a holographic fireplace, why not a maid?
Iv'e read the idea that she was a hologram before, but I never saw it confirmed officially anywhere.

Not that there's anything wrong with being a maid, but the dialog in TNG especially suggests that humans seek high profile jobs that signals accomplishment.

It's all about careers and achievement, since they cant impress one another with money or wealth it seems.
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Old March 20 2013, 01:01 AM   #96
The Wormhole
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

Nightdiamond wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Nightdiamond wrote: View Post
I've seen certain Trek characters talk as if certain jobs were beneath them. So why would anyone want to serve as a butler or maid in the 24th century, like the woman who was Data's maid in A.G.T?
She was a holographic maid. What? He had a holographic fireplace, why not a maid?
Iv'e read the idea that she was a hologram before, but I never saw it confirmed officially anywhere.

Not that there's anything wrong with being a maid, but the dialog in TNG especially suggests that humans seek high profile jobs that signals accomplishment.

It's all about careers and achievement, since they cant impress one another with money or wealth it seems.
My post was more tongue and cheek than it was a serious theory, but really, there's no reason she can't be holographic. And given she's such a stereotype of a British maid, it certainly fits.
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Old March 20 2013, 03:03 AM   #97
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

I've always thought his worst idea was hiring Rick Berman? Well, nobody's perfect.
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Old March 20 2013, 03:07 AM   #98
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

Humans mating successfully with Vulcans and Klingons was a pretty bad idea.
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Old March 20 2013, 03:52 AM   #99
Nerys Myk
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

Anji wrote: View Post
I've always thought his worst idea was hiring Rick Berman? Well, nobody's perfect.
I've a feeling the franchise and TNG would not have survived without Berman.
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Old March 20 2013, 04:08 AM   #100
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

Davros wrote: View Post
Humans mating successfully with Vulcans and Klingons was a pretty bad idea.
In terms of real biology, yes. In story and character terms, no.

The "interplanetary half-breed" is just a sci-fi take on the classic character who's torn between two different cultures, with the two sides of his or her own nature constantly in conflict. In real science, of course, successful interbreeding between species that evolved independently on different worlds is less likely than crossing a cat with an artichoke.
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Old March 20 2013, 08:15 AM   #101
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

BillJ wrote: View Post
JoeZhang wrote: View Post
James T. Kirk is named after his mum's 'Love instructor'.
I planned on just leaving that one alone.
Given the scene in the last movie where Kirk's first name was arrived upon, umm exactly who was mommy's "love instructor" again?

Icky

Davros wrote: View Post
Humans mating successfully with Vulcans and Klingons was a pretty bad idea.
That there could have been a rare occurrence Vulcan/Human "mule" in the form of Spock is one thing, that a wide variety of species could have children together is kind of loopy.

sonak wrote: View Post
T'Girl wrote: View Post
If someone refuses to perform in your supposed "post-scarcity" society what happens ... Force? Penial colonies?
As to the "what happens if someone refuses to perform" question, well, what happens when someone doesn't think it's right that they have to pay a chunk of their income in taxes in our modern society?
Well they could drop their income below a certain point and tie into the social service system, there by effectively paying no taxes.

Consider Sonak, while I do pay taxes, my government doesn't mandate what legal means I under take to earn that money. I am not assigned a job, nor required to live in a certain area to be reasonably adjacent to that job.

Or they don't think they should be forced to wear seatbelts?
Public transportation. No seat belts.

people like to act like coercion is somehow the deal-breaker in a socialist or quasi-socialist system, which I always find hilarious.
Coercion isn't the deal-breaker, having to live in a socialist system would be. Hopefully the future Federation is free society, and not a socialist one.

There's coercion of some sort in EVERY society that has and ever will exist, so let's just be open about it.
Okay, but it is matter of degree. At some point the level of "coercion" becomes unacceptable. My society forcing my activities and occupation would be far beyond that point, and a clear indication that the societies involvement needs to be drastically reduced.

Better still, never allowed to reach that point in the first place..


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Old March 20 2013, 09:53 AM   #102
marksound
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Anji wrote: View Post
I've always thought his worst idea was hiring Rick Berman? Well, nobody's perfect.
I've a feeling the franchise and TNG would not have survived without Berman.
I always thought it was Paramount that sent Berman in to keep an eye on things.
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Old March 20 2013, 10:15 AM   #103
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

It doesn't matter how implausible you think a successful society without money is. It's not physically impossible. From what we can tell, accelerating past lightspeed is exactly that, and they do that in every single episode to general indifference.

People who refuse to do anything are presumably regarded as unwell or maladapted. I guess they get offered counselling. If they don't respond to that, it seems to me like they'd just be left alone and pitied. It's not as though exceptionally smart people are going to be prone to doing that. I'm not sure Einstein was in it for the paycheque.
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Old March 20 2013, 01:36 PM   #104
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

Anji wrote: View Post
I've always thought his worst idea was hiring Rick Berman? Well, nobody's perfect.
Oh, please. Modern Trek wouldn't exist without Berman. Irrespective of whether you like Voyager or Enterprise (I've only seen seasons 1-2 of Voyager and 2 episodes of Enterprise, so can't really comment), Berman's contributions to TNG and its success are critical.
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Old March 20 2013, 01:57 PM   #105
ZapBrannigan
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

The worst I would say about Rick Berman is that his tenure was a mixed bag.

The positive: I liked all four spinoff series. They had charismatic casts and generally took a much more serious approach to continuity and consistency than the movies did.

The negative: Berman is reputed to be the executive who discouraged emotion and melody in the episode music scores, often resulting in a generic ahhhmmm note to tell you when the commercials were starting. Blah.

Overall, the franchise could have done a lot worse!
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