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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old March 19 2013, 03:53 AM   #31
Turbo
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Re: Was Hartnell first?

Agreed. It's really not very clear in the episode, and it works fine with them being Morbius's incarnations.
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Old March 19 2013, 06:21 AM   #32
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Re: Was Hartnell first?

Do we honestly know enough about the Doctor's past to say they might not be past incarnations? He is a Time Lord with a boatload of secrets after all.
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Old March 19 2013, 12:16 PM   #33
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Re: Was Hartnell first?

Mt theory was, if they weren't past Doctors, they might have been an attempt at showing future Doctors.

What Diankra was saying about Terrence Dicks' take on it put the thought in my head that the original idea could have gone either way.
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Old March 19 2013, 12:23 PM   #34
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Re: Was Hartnell first?

Sketcher wrote: View Post
Do we honestly know enough about the Doctor's past to say they might not be past incarnations? He is a Time Lord with a boatload of secrets after all.
No we don't. He's said some things about his previous incarnations, but it's been said that the Doctor lies quite a lot.
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Old March 19 2013, 12:52 PM   #35
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Re: Was Hartnell first?

The Mirrorball Man wrote: View Post
Sketcher wrote: View Post
Do we honestly know enough about the Doctor's past to say they might not be past incarnations? He is a Time Lord with a boatload of secrets after all.
No we don't. He's said some things about his previous incarnations, but it's been said that the Doctor lies quite a lot.
The problem with that is that the Timelords themselves seem pretty clear which Doctor is the first incarnation, now you could argue that they are lying but who to? They reveal this information while talking to each other.
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Old March 19 2013, 01:22 PM   #36
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Re: Was Hartnell first?

Hartnell's Doctor may have been first, but was possibly not. Or something.

In a series about time travel, getting hung up on continuity is kinda silly. Wibbly-wobbly and all that.
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Old March 19 2013, 01:59 PM   #37
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Re: Was Hartnell first?

Sketcher wrote: View Post
Do we honestly know enough about the Doctor's past to say they might not be past incarnations? He is a Time Lord with a boatload of secrets after all.
Well, in The Five Doctors when the Fifth and First Doctors first meet.

First: "Regeneration?"
Fifth: "Fourth."
First: "Ah, so there are five of me now."

Pretty sure the Doctor doesn't lie to or keep secrets from himself.
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Old March 19 2013, 02:03 PM   #38
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Re: Was Hartnell first?

The thing is, just because the Time Lords believe that Hartnell was the first, it doesn't make it a fact. They could have been fooled along with everyone else. The infamous sequence in "Brain of Morbius" opens up a tantalising glimpse into something we'd never suspected before. What if the Doctor was reborn, and perhaps doesn't even remember his earlier incarnations himself - except when his mental barriers were broken open during the mind-wrestling contest.
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Old March 19 2013, 02:05 PM   #39
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Re: Was Hartnell first?

Sketcher wrote: View Post
Do we honestly know enough about the Doctor's past to say they might not be past incarnations? He is a Time Lord with a boatload of secrets after all.
He's also a fictional character whose adventures have been related by many different writers and producers with different sets of assumptions about the character and the series' continuity. Every story except this one has agreed that Hartnell was the first incarnation of the Doctor. Even in the Cartmel Masterplan, where the Doctor was a reincarnation of the Other, Hartnell was still the first incarnation of the reborn individual who knows himself as the Doctor. If one story claims something that every other story disagrees with, I don't think we should ignore the preponderance of evidence in favor of a single anomalous data point. Particularly since it's such a minor element of the story, just an odd bit of trivia.
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Old March 19 2013, 05:09 PM   #40
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Re: Was Hartnell first?

Andrew_Kearley wrote: View Post
.....What if the Doctor was reborn, and perhaps doesn't even remember his earlier incarnations himself - except when his mental barriers were broken open during the mind-wrestling contest.
Hmmmmm... :

[The Doctor watches his original self on the laptop screen]

Hauser:
Howdy, stranger! This is Hauser. If things have gone wrong, I'm talking to myself and you don't have a wet towel around your head. Now, whatever your name is, get ready for the big surprise. You are not you, you're me.

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Old March 19 2013, 06:26 PM   #41
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Re: Was Hartnell first?

Christopher wrote: View Post
He's also a fictional character whose adventures have been related by many different writers and producers with different sets of assumptions about the character and the series' continuity. Every story except this one has agreed that Hartnell was the first incarnation of the Doctor. Even in the Cartmel Masterplan, where the Doctor was a reincarnation of the Other, Hartnell was still the first incarnation of the reborn individual who knows himself as the Doctor. If one story claims something that every other story disagrees with, I don't think we should ignore the preponderance of evidence in favor of a single anomalous data point. Particularly since it's such a minor element of the story, just an odd bit of trivia.
Bah, where's the fun in that? It's all true, I tell you. We just don't understand how it all fits together yet. It's worth reading Cold Fusion though.
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Old March 19 2013, 07:25 PM   #42
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Re: Was Hartnell first?

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Sketcher wrote: View Post
Do we honestly know enough about the Doctor's past to say they might not be past incarnations? He is a Time Lord with a boatload of secrets after all.
Well, in The Five Doctors when the Fifth and First Doctors first meet.

First: "Regeneration?"
Fifth: "Fourth."
First: "Ah, so there are five of me now."

Pretty sure the Doctor doesn't lie to or keep secrets from himself.
Were I the Doctor, myself would be the first person I'd keep secrets from.
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Old March 19 2013, 07:51 PM   #43
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Re: Was Hartnell first?

Sketcher wrote: View Post
Do we honestly know enough about the Doctor's past to say they might not be past incarnations? He is a Time Lord with a boatload of secrets after all.
Yeah, we do. It's been explicitly stated before and after this story to know that Hartnell is the first.

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Old March 19 2013, 08:15 PM   #44
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Re: Was Hartnell first?

The First Doctor simply wore several disguises when he was younger.
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Old March 19 2013, 09:38 PM   #45
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Re: Was Hartnell first?

Andrew_Kearley wrote: View Post
Bah, where's the fun in that? It's all true, I tell you. We just don't understand how it all fits together yet. It's worth reading Cold Fusion though.
There are a lot of reasons to read Cold Fusion, beyond what it says about the pre-Hartnell Doctors.

Really, I'm just a sucker for the relationship between the Doctor and Patience. She's the Doctor's Mellow Pixie Dream Girl. (She's Mellow rather than Manic, but she fits all of the other characteristics of the MPDG,) And she meant so much to him that he was willing to let Omega win and the universe end in The Infinity Doctors if it meant he could spend eternity with her.
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