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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old March 18 2013, 08:40 PM   #1
Sadara
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Commodore Wesley confuses me

In the Ultimate Computer, he knew the M5 was being tested in its abilities to run a starship and yet when things go wrong he assumes Kirk is just having a tantrum instead of considering the possibility that the M5 malfunctioned. Not exactly command material in my opinion.
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Old March 18 2013, 08:44 PM   #2
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Re: Commodore Wesley confuses me

TOS is full of one dimensional characters behaving irrationally for plot purposes.

In fact most things are full of one dimensional characters behaving irrationally for plot purposes...
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Old March 18 2013, 09:00 PM   #3
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Re: Commodore Wesley confuses me

Relayer1 wrote: View Post
TOS is full of one dimensional characters behaving irrationally for plot purposes.

In fact most things are full of one dimensional characters behaving irrationally for plot purposes...
I guess that would make Wesley a "plot point".

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Old March 18 2013, 09:02 PM   #4
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Re: Commodore Wesley confuses me

Kirk was so disliked by his peers that Wesley was more willing to believe Kirk had finally went off the deep end than that the M-5 was malfunctioning.


But if I recall correctly, it should have been impossible for Kirk to lose total control of the Enterprise to the M-5 (even in the event of a malfunction), but the computer overrode manual override.
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Old March 18 2013, 09:24 PM   #5
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Re: Commodore Wesley confuses me

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Kirk was so disliked by his peers that Wesley was more willing to believe Kirk had finally went off the deep end than that the M-5 was malfunctioning.


But if I recall correctly, it should have been impossible for Kirk to lose total control of the Enterprise to the M-5 (even in the event of a malfunction), but the computer overrode manual override.
I guess I overlooked it, but I didn't really sense that Kirk's peers disliked him that much. Even so, assuming someone we don't like went off the deep end just because that's what we're hoping for isn't exactly rational.
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Old March 18 2013, 09:46 PM   #6
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Re: Commodore Wesley confuses me

Maybe Wesley had been working closely with Daystrom and M-5 and thought it impossible that M-5 malfunctioned? We really aren't privy to what was going on before Kirk arrived and discussions aboard the Lexington once things went south.
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Old March 18 2013, 10:22 PM   #7
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Re: Commodore Wesley confuses me

Wesley knew Kirk had that big ass circuit breaker mounted on the side of his Captain's chair, surely he would have threw it if the M5 started shooting on it's own.
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Old March 18 2013, 10:36 PM   #8
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Re: Commodore Wesley confuses me

Sadara wrote: View Post
In the Ultimate Computer, he knew the M5 was being tested in its abilities to run a starship and yet when things go wrong he assumes Kirk is just having a tantrum instead of considering the possibility that the M5 malfunctioned. Not exactly command material in my opinion.
"The Enterprise refuses to answer and is continuing attack. I still have an effective battle force and believe the only way to stop the Enterprise is to destroy her. Request permission to proceed. Wesley, commanding attack force, out."

I think that whether Kirk had gone mad, or M-5 was malfunctioning, or the Enterprise was suddenly comandeered by magic evil spirts, Wesly's command actions probably needed to be the same no matter what the cause was: with the Enterprise failing to respond and with it blasting the hell out of the four starships, "the only way to stop the Enterprise was to destroy her"--whatever the actual cause had been.
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Old March 18 2013, 10:38 PM   #9
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Re: Commodore Wesley confuses me

It does seem weird that Wesley wouldn't recognize the actions of M-5 during battle. Did he really think that Kirk could slice up four starships that quickly and effectively?
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Old March 18 2013, 11:04 PM   #10
C.E. Evans
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Re: Commodore Wesley confuses me

Sadara wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Kirk was so disliked by his peers that Wesley was more willing to believe Kirk had finally went off the deep end than that the M-5 was malfunctioning.


But if I recall correctly, it should have been impossible for Kirk to lose total control of the Enterprise to the M-5 (even in the event of a malfunction), but the computer overrode manual override.
I guess I overlooked it, but I didn't really sense that Kirk's peers disliked him that much. Even so, assuming someone we don't like went off the deep end just because that's what we're hoping for isn't exactly rational.
The first part of my comment was a joke (note the smiley).

The second part is what I really think what happened. As far as Wesley knew, the M-5 had a shut-off switch that Kirk could flip if it ever malfunctioned. Wesley didn't know that the M-5 could override its shut-off switch. Heck, Kirk and the gang didn't know it could do that.
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Old March 18 2013, 11:20 PM   #11
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Re: Commodore Wesley confuses me

Honestly i always thought the same thing. Why couldn't they have given him one measley line to make him seem more 'with-it.'


"Jim, if M-5 is out of control you have to disable it quick or we'll be forced to destroy the enterprise!"
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Old March 18 2013, 11:21 PM   #12
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Re: Commodore Wesley confuses me

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Sadara wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Kirk was so disliked by his peers that Wesley was more willing to believe Kirk had finally went off the deep end than that the M-5 was malfunctioning.


But if I recall correctly, it should have been impossible for Kirk to lose total control of the Enterprise to the M-5 (even in the event of a malfunction), but the computer overrode manual override.
I guess I overlooked it, but I didn't really sense that Kirk's peers disliked him that much. Even so, assuming someone we don't like went off the deep end just because that's what we're hoping for isn't exactly rational.
The first part of my comment was a joke (note the smiley).

The second part is what I really think what happened. As far as Wesley knew, the M-5 had a shut-off switch that Kirk could flip if it ever malfunctioned. Wesley didn't know that the M-5 could override its shut-off switch. Heck, Kirk and the gang didn't know it could do that.
Sure, no one knew that, but it still doesn't make sense to assume that Kirk went nuts rather than the M5. Wesley has known Kirk for years and should know that sort of behavior isn't part of Kirk's character. The M5, sure it did great in simulated tests, but it was still the more unknown variable. Assuming Kirk just freaked out is still more than a stretch.
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Old March 18 2013, 11:23 PM   #13
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Re: Commodore Wesley confuses me

GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
Sadara wrote: View Post
In the Ultimate Computer, he knew the M5 was being tested in its abilities to run a starship and yet when things go wrong he assumes Kirk is just having a tantrum instead of considering the possibility that the M5 malfunctioned. Not exactly command material in my opinion.
"The Enterprise refuses to answer and is continuing attack. I still have an effective battle force and believe the only way to stop the Enterprise is to destroy her. Request permission to proceed. Wesley, commanding attack force, out."

I think that whether Kirk had gone mad, or M-5 was malfunctioning, or the Enterprise was suddenly comandeered by magic evil spirts, Wesly's command actions probably needed to be the same no matter what the cause was: with the Enterprise failing to respond and with it blasting the hell out of the four starships, "the only way to stop the Enterprise was to destroy her"--whatever the actual cause had been.
I agree that the course of action would likely have remained the same. I'm just questioning Wesley's reasoning as to the cause. He seemed to have more faith in that M5 machine than Kirk apparently.
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Old March 18 2013, 11:24 PM   #14
Sadara
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Re: Commodore Wesley confuses me

Grant wrote: View Post
Honestly i always thought the same thing. Why couldn't they have given him one measley line to make him seem more 'with-it.'


"Jim, if M-5 is out of control you have to disable it quick or we'll be forced to destroy the enterprise!"
^This.
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Old March 18 2013, 11:45 PM   #15
C.E. Evans
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Re: Commodore Wesley confuses me

Sadara wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Sadara wrote: View Post

I guess I overlooked it, but I didn't really sense that Kirk's peers disliked him that much. Even so, assuming someone we don't like went off the deep end just because that's what we're hoping for isn't exactly rational.
The first part of my comment was a joke (note the smiley).

The second part is what I really think what happened. As far as Wesley knew, the M-5 had a shut-off switch that Kirk could flip if it ever malfunctioned. Wesley didn't know that the M-5 could override its shut-off switch. Heck, Kirk and the gang didn't know it could do that.
Sure, no one knew that, but it still doesn't make sense to assume that Kirk went nuts rather than the M5.
Think about it, though. As far as Wesley knew, the M-5 had a shut-off switch in the event of a malfunction, and as such, there was no way that the Enterprise would be attacking other Federation starships unless Kirk was authorizing the M-5 to do so. Nobody (other than perhaps Daystrom) knew that the M-5 could arrange things so that Kirk couldn't turn it off.
Wesley has known Kirk for years and should know that sort of behavior isn't part of Kirk's character.
Which may have been the only thing that prevented the Enterprise from being blown to bits once the M-5 deactivated itself.
The M5, sure it did great in simulated tests, but it was still the more unknown variable. Assuming Kirk just freaked out is still more than a stretch.
Not necessarily, because people have snapped before with powerful weapons at their disposal.
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