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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old March 13 2013, 03:04 PM   #16
MikeS
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Re: Examples of times Troi was used well in the series?

Having just watched Unnatural Selection as part of the HD rewatch, I have to say she was used incredibly well in this one. Even if she didn't have a major role it was one of the first episodes (along with Skin Of Evil and Loud As A Whisper) where they knew how to write for her.
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Old March 13 2013, 03:08 PM   #17
Trek Survivor
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Re: Examples of times Troi was used well in the series?

Off the top of my head:
"Disaster"
"Face of the Enemy"
"Dark Page"
"The Loss"
"Best of Both Worlds"

More often than not, there are "good Troi moments" rather than "good Troi episodes"... but she did better in terms of decent screen than say, La Forge and Crusher.
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Old March 13 2013, 04:12 PM   #18
Sadara
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Re: Examples of times Troi was used well in the series?

I honestly don't find her that great as a counselor, though I did think Dark Page was a good episode for her. She often comes across in counseling situations or in similar type situations as snooty. The way she handled Janet in The Loss even before the loss of her empathic abilities left something to be desired. I'm working on a master's in licensed mental health counseling myself and I find her style to be too confrontational at times and lacking in warmth or empathy.

I think it would have helped if we'd seen her function more as an actual counselor working with the crew rather than what we did see of her. As counselors go, I would have easily have found it more productive to talk to Ezri Dax.

I don't know. It's hard for me to really find good Troi moments I suppose because I really don't like her character much at all.
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Old March 16 2013, 11:09 PM   #19
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Re: Examples of times Troi was used well in the series?

I liked Deanna in "Power Play," but she was under the influence of an alien, so maybe that doesn't count.
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Old March 17 2013, 01:10 AM   #20
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Re: Examples of times Troi was used well in the series?

DalekJim wrote: View Post
I'm rewatching TNG (Currently midway through S2!) and ... I fucking hate Troi.

So, are there any great moments people think she had during the run of TNG?
The only one I can think of is the episode where she's in her quarters with a skimpy nightie.

Other than that, I didn't care much for her character, or at least didn't care for her on the bridge all the time. It made Picard seem less capable as a Captain because it appeared he needed her so much he gave her a chair next to his own.
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Old March 17 2013, 11:50 PM   #21
SoM
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Re: Examples of times Troi was used well in the series?

LobsterAfternoon wrote: View Post
Strikes me that it might just been more useful to make her a proper telepath. Have any of the writers discussed why they didn't just do that?
I suspect they thought it would short-circuit a lot of plots - it's one thing if Picard or Riker can read the poker face of the Romulan/Cardassian/whoever on the viewscreen and guess what they're up to, it's quite another if Troi can pipe up and say "Captain, the Romulan ship have planted mines at 020 mark 120". Spock wasn't afflicted by this primarily because they range-limited him - even when his mind-meld ability was introduced, it was only over short distances, and they soon limited it further to touch-only.

The problem with the character that emerged, however, was that her power was a horrible kludge of "still too powerful" and "too useless" - too powerful because she could sense deception at a million kilometres, and too useless because often they ignored this and, as everyone soon notices, just had her state the obvious - after all, if she did more than that, the plot would be over too soon. It was a simple failure of planning when they set up the show, and unlike other characters that were underplanned and didn't work in initial form (Worf, DS9's Bashir), they never really took steps to fix this. They should have depowered her, permanently, in the shuffle at the start of S2 when they moved Geordi to Engineering, retooled Worf, etc and worked from there.
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Old March 18 2013, 04:03 PM   #22
erastus25
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Re: Examples of times Troi was used well in the series?

I may be in the minority but I liked her subplot of having difficulty passing the command test.
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Old March 18 2013, 04:09 PM   #23
The Mirrorball Man
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Re: Examples of times Troi was used well in the series?

I may be wrong, but I always thought that Gene Roddenberry came up with Deanna Troi, and he, not being a very experienced television writer, didn't realize that her powers were a nightmare to write for convincingly, and that you could only write two scenes where she's using her natural empathy: one in which she states the obvious and one in which she solves everything instantly.
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Old March 18 2013, 06:46 PM   #24
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Re: Examples of times Troi was used well in the series?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
She had a good part to play in Disaster, she was shown to be inept as a command officer, but she was supposed to be. Also the episode with the cosmic string where she loses her mental abilities.

Plus, I'd like to think that after Deanna hooked up with Worf, that she was "well used" on a nightly basis.

I just watched "The Loss" last night (cosmic string). She is really effective in that episode, having to deal with a sudden and painful disability. Marina Sirtis can act, and when they gave her good opportunity to do so, she did very well.
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Old March 18 2013, 07:52 PM   #25
Silvercrest
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Re: Examples of times Troi was used well in the series?

LobsterAfternoon wrote: View Post
Strikes me that it might just been more useful to make her a proper telepath. Have any of the writers discussed why they didn't just do that?
The Mirrorball Man wrote: View Post
I may be wrong, but I always thought that Gene Roddenberry came up with Deanna Troi, and he, not being a very experienced television writer, didn't realize that her powers were a nightmare to write for convincingly
I remember reading some quotes from Gene around the beginning of the series explaining how it would be hard to make a full telepath work: a character who's constantly bombarded with everyone's thoughts, who sees their companions say one thing and think another, etc. They'd turn into a quivering neurotic in short order. This is supposedly the reason Deanna was made just an empath.

Of course, that doesn't explain why Lwaxana Troi had no problem with it.

I think those quotes are in an old fanzine article. I'll have to go home and dig it out.
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