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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old March 18 2013, 01:24 AM   #316
HaventGotALife
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Re: Levar Burton aka Geordi La Forge criticizes Star Trek 2009

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
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The point is that highlighting the flaws in prior Trek is not the best way to defend the flaws in current Trek.
Wrong. It's an apt and effective way of emphasizing that most of the fannish critics of Abrams's Trek movies maintain intellectually dishonest double standards in their attempts to make their complaints work.
You don't have to think every Star Trek movie before Abrams is perfect in order to criticize the new Star Trek movies. Personally, I don't like Jim Kirk in the movies, dating back to the first one. This is a guy who went with his gut, but he didn't outright defy people in advancing in rank to become the youngest Captain in Starfleet history. It isn't until he's sitting in prison in TUC that he decides "Hey, I don't get to do whatever the hell I want. I'm not right all the time." I think TMP and TWOK are good movies, not great, and that the rest were mediocre. I'd much rather see Star Trek on the small screen. I don't think the movies do much exploring--showing the Enterprise crew as anything more than soldiers--and the "keeping the stakes high" has led to a formula I would like to see them break. If STID is as advertised, the last 3 movies have had a madman, bent of revenge, going after earth. That's a trend I would like to see them break.
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Old March 18 2013, 02:11 AM   #317
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Re: Levar Burton aka Geordi La Forge criticizes Star Trek 2009

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Though I'm sure some nice chap will be along shortly to say Orci and Kurtzman are better because Transformers 2 and Star Trek 2009 made more money.
The arguments do get repetitive. People who like JJ Trek are operating on a wholly different wavelength, so there's no way to bridge the gap, I'm afraid.
No more repetitive than your own. "Dumbed down". "ADD". "True Trek". Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
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Old March 18 2013, 04:36 AM   #318
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Re: Levar Burton aka Geordi La Forge criticizes Star Trek 2009

HaventGotALife wrote: View Post
Personally, I don't like Jim Kirk in the movies, dating back to the first one. This is a guy who went with his gut, but he didn't outright defy people in advancing in rank to become the youngest Captain in Starfleet history. It isn't until he's sitting in prison in TUC that he decides "Hey, I don't get to do whatever the hell I want. I'm not right all the time."
How do you know this? When were we ever shown Kirk at 25, this early in his career?
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Old March 18 2013, 04:52 AM   #319
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Re: Levar Burton aka Geordi La Forge criticizes Star Trek 2009

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
mos6507 wrote: View Post
DalekJim wrote: View Post
Though I'm sure some nice chap will be along shortly to say Orci and Kurtzman are better because Transformers 2 and Star Trek 2009 made more money.
The arguments do get repetitive. People who like JJ Trek are operating on a wholly different wavelength, so there's no way to bridge the gap, I'm afraid.
No more repetitive than your own. "Dumbed down". "ADD". "True Trek". Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
Honestly, it's bordering on insulting whenever they call the audience (especially members of my generation) "dumb" or "ADD" (which by the way is actually known as "ADHD-I", it hasn't been known as "ADD" since 1994).
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Old March 18 2013, 05:01 AM   #320
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Re: Levar Burton aka Geordi La Forge criticizes Star Trek 2009

Sindatur wrote: View Post
HaventGotALife wrote: View Post
Personally, I don't like Jim Kirk in the movies, dating back to the first one. This is a guy who went with his gut, but he didn't outright defy people in advancing in rank to become the youngest Captain in Starfleet history. It isn't until he's sitting in prison in TUC that he decides "Hey, I don't get to do whatever the hell I want. I'm not right all the time."
How do you know this? When were we ever shown Kirk at 25, this early in his career?
Never really. At best we've heard what others thought of him prior to assuming command of the Enterprise. Mitchell said he was a stack of books with legs. Carol described him as "never a Boy Scout". Both might be true or perhaps the truth is somewhere in between.

As a Captain, Kirk often came into conflict with his superiors and he did defy them when he felt it necessary. I doubt this was trait that developed after he gained command of the Enterprise.
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Old March 18 2013, 07:52 AM   #321
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Re: Levar Burton aka Geordi La Forge criticizes Star Trek 2009

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Sindatur wrote: View Post
HaventGotALife wrote: View Post
Personally, I don't like Jim Kirk in the movies, dating back to the first one. This is a guy who went with his gut, but he didn't outright defy people in advancing in rank to become the youngest Captain in Starfleet history. It isn't until he's sitting in prison in TUC that he decides "Hey, I don't get to do whatever the hell I want. I'm not right all the time."
How do you know this? When were we ever shown Kirk at 25, this early in his career?
Never really. At best we've heard what others thought of him prior to assuming command of the Enterprise. Mitchell said he was a stack of books with legs. Carol described him as "never a Boy Scout". Both might be true or perhaps the truth is somewhere in between.

As a Captain, Kirk often came into conflict with his superiors and he did defy them when he felt it necessary. I doubt this was trait that developed after he gained command of the Enterprise.
He had a friend in every port. That's not just charisma. It would be impossible for him to have this attitude and gain command in the prime universe. Without saving Earth, he probably ends up suspended for the Kobiashi Maru in NuTrek. Unless Starfleet is as reckless as he is, I don't see him just doing what he wants. In the series, he debated whether or not to do something against the rules. In the movies, no debate. He just does what he wants. He gets the Enterprise in TMP, he takes the Enterprise in III, he goes to see God in TFF, and he scolds Spock for asking him to be apart of the peace mission--brooding, drinking Romulan Ale, snipping at Spock (I hope you're happy), and telling his personal log he can't get past the death of his son.

This is a case of arrogance that would've gotten him snapped back. His reputation is the only way he could get away with it in the movies. He doesn't have that reputation in TOS.
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Old March 18 2013, 09:11 AM   #322
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Re: Levar Burton aka Geordi La Forge criticizes Star Trek 2009

Kruezerman wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
mos6507 wrote: View Post

The arguments do get repetitive. People who like JJ Trek are operating on a wholly different wavelength, so there's no way to bridge the gap, I'm afraid.
No more repetitive than your own. "Dumbed down". "ADD". "True Trek". Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
Honestly, it's bordering on insulting whenever they call the audience (especially members of my generation) "dumb" or "ADD" (which by the way is actually known as "ADHD-I", it hasn't been known as "ADD" since 1994).
They changed disease designation canon? Oh sweet Zaltar!

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DAMN YOU J.J. ABRAMS! DAMN YOU TO WHATEVER IS CURRENTLY THE DESIGNATION FOR AN APPROXIMATION OF WHATEVER YOU MIGHT CALL THE ETERNAL TORMENT AND FIERY PITS OF A NON-ENDING AND COLLECTIVELY DREADED HELL!
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Old March 18 2013, 10:52 AM   #323
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Re: Levar Burton aka Geordi La Forge criticizes Star Trek 2009

==
Honestly, it's bordering on insulting whenever they call the audience (especially members of my generation) "dumb" or "ADD" (which by the way is actually known as "ADHD-I", it hasn't been known as "ADD" since 1994).
==

It's just as insulting to call those who are picky about their movies "snobs" or "elitist". Really, if JJ fans want to keep things civil, they have to realize it's a two-way street. Just because we don't see things the same way doesn't mean we're out of touch eggheads. I'm sorry to admit I'm a film school graduate. Sue me.
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Old March 18 2013, 11:07 AM   #324
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Re: Levar Burton aka Geordi La Forge criticizes Star Trek 2009

mos6507 wrote: View Post
I'm sorry to admit I'm a film school graduate. Sue me.
Nah, I don't think you're sorry at all.

And really, when are those who don't like Star Trek been called "snobs" or "elitists"? That doesn't happen very often. Usually people point out that you and your friends are unfavorably comparing Star Trek with a partial and idealized vision of what the original Star Trek series really was.
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Old March 18 2013, 11:07 AM   #325
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Re: Levar Burton aka Geordi La Forge criticizes Star Trek 2009

I'm a film school graduate, too. It's misleading to frame the disagreement in terms of populism versus elitism. It's not as though Trek generally has some elitist value. It's always been popular entertainment aimed at a mass audience.
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Old March 18 2013, 11:27 AM   #326
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Re: Levar Burton aka Geordi La Forge criticizes Star Trek 2009

Wow there seem to be an exorbitant amount of film school graduates on this board recently...
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Old March 18 2013, 11:29 AM   #327
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Re: Levar Burton aka Geordi La Forge criticizes Star Trek 2009

They grow us in pods. Soon we will be in command. The next Trek movie will be shot on b/w 16mm and feature no dialogue once we have our way...
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Old March 18 2013, 11:39 AM   #328
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Re: Levar Burton aka Geordi La Forge criticizes Star Trek 2009

When talking about film school graduates though, more often than not the operating word is not "film", it's "school".
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Old March 18 2013, 11:58 AM   #329
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Re: Levar Burton aka Geordi La Forge criticizes Star Trek 2009

OphaClyde wrote: View Post
Wow there seem to be an exorbitant amount of film school graduates on this board recently...
I was thinking the same thing.
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Old March 18 2013, 12:00 PM   #330
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Re: Levar Burton aka Geordi La Forge criticizes Star Trek 2009

yousirname wrote: View Post
The next Trek movie will be shot on b/w 16mm and feature no dialogue once we have our way...
And it'll be no less Trek than the 2009 film was.

That's the argument I simply cannot understand. I have issues with the film but it is undeniably "Star Trek".
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