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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old March 17 2013, 10:08 PM   #16
C.E. Evans
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Re: The AGT Dreadnought Enterprise

RAMA wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
I initially liked the three-nacelle Enterprise-D until I got a good look at her and realized what a Frankenstein she was, with all sorts of new bits covering old bits, and not all of them very well.

I definitely think a true Galaxy-class refit won't look anything like that, but probably just a sleeker version of the original.
ST Online has a more than passable Galaxy upgrade:

Venture Class:

http://www.stowiki.org/Exploration_Cruiser_Retrofit
http://trekazoid.wordpress.com/2011/...venture-class/
Yep. That was the design I was thinking of. Thanx.
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Old March 17 2013, 10:23 PM   #17
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Re: The AGT Dreadnought Enterprise

i like it with the exception of the thickness of the third pylon. the normal galaxy class looks better from front/below and the upgrade makes the top/back view more interesting
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Old March 17 2013, 11:10 PM   #18
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Re: The AGT Dreadnought Enterprise

jimbotron wrote: View Post
Uuuuuuuuugly.

I saw the 4-foot model on exhibit a couple years ago. The model still had scars from where the extra pieces were. It's pretty obvious why it was never sold at auction. It's too trashed to sell.
Well, they knew they were never going to use it again - ST: Generations went back to the exclusive use of the [refurbished] six-footer, after all, and they destroyed the E-D there (and if they hadn't, they'd probably have continued with the six-footer for any further model work). Why would they spend the time refurbishing an obsolete model?
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Old March 17 2013, 11:49 PM   #19
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Re: The AGT Dreadnought Enterprise

They did end up using it a few more times on DS9. They sure did a good job with lighting to hide the flaws.
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Old March 17 2013, 11:55 PM   #20
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Re: The AGT Dreadnought Enterprise

jimbotron wrote: View Post
They did end up using it a few more times on DS9. They sure did a good job with lighting to hide the flaws.
Did they? I thought "The Jem'Hadar"'s model work was done before AGT, and the few later Galaxy-class appearances were either stock footage or (once you get into the Dominion War) CGI.
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Old March 17 2013, 11:57 PM   #21
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Re: The AGT Dreadnought Enterprise

Anyone find it sad how we got WAY more new starship designs in "All Good Things" (USS Pasteur, future Enterprise, new Klingon attack cruisers) compared to "Generations" (All reused ship designs)? It was so disappointing how little effort was put into that stupid movie!
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Old March 18 2013, 12:04 AM   #22
jimbotron
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Re: The AGT Dreadnought Enterprise

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Did they? I thought "The Jem'Hadar"'s model work was done before AGT, and the few later Galaxy-class appearances were either stock footage or (once you get into the Dominion War) CGI.
It was used one last time in Way of the Warrior as the USS Venture. It retained the attachments from the AGT modification on the tops of the warp nacelles.

I guess they didn't cover up all the scars after all. You can see some smudging on the saucer around where the registry should be.

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Old March 18 2013, 09:22 AM   #23
Timo
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Re: The AGT Dreadnought Enterprise

I definitely think a true Galaxy-class refit won't look anything like that, but probably just a sleeker version of the original.
How do you make a refit sleeker? By applying a gigantic cheese-grate? In reality, if you could afford to do something like that, you would much rather spend the money on an all-new ship. "Refitting" is all about gluing on new bits, or blowtorching old ones away; if hull form gets changed today, it's by the above methods (bulges on the sides of a ship for stability or torpedo protection, more steel on the bow for better wave-piercing, or perhaps cutting off of the stern into a short transom to save weight or adjust center of gravity or buoyancy).

Which is why it's easy to believe in the adding of a third nacelle or other trivialities to the E-D, but very hard to believe in the subtle hull change in the E-E between the last few movies! The former process might be gradual upgrading to keep up with the Jones class, but the latter smells of massive repairs after catastrophic damage to the secondary hull...

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Old March 18 2013, 11:31 AM   #24
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Re: The AGT Dreadnought Enterprise

Timo wrote: View Post
Which is why it's easy to believe in the adding of a third nacelle or other trivialities to the E-D, but very hard to believe in the subtle hull change in the E-E between the last few movies! The former process might be gradual upgrading to keep up with the Jones class, but the latter smells of massive repairs after catastrophic damage to the secondary hull...
Meh, I just presume the E-E shape changes were intended as a retcon, just like the thicker saucer rim (to reflect Ten Forward) on the E-D four-footer, rather than a change to the "actual" ship in-universe.
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Old March 18 2013, 07:50 PM   #25
C.E. Evans
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Re: The AGT Dreadnought Enterprise

I definitely think a true Galaxy-class refit won't look anything like that, but probably just a sleeker version of the original.
How do you make a refit sleeker?
Look at the TMP Constitution-class.
By applying a gigantic cheese-grate?
No, by thinking about how to refine the design then start the ball rolling with a starship design and engineering team, duh.

Which is why it's easy to believe in the adding of a third nacelle or other trivialities to the E-D, but very hard to believe in the subtle hull change in the E-E between the last few movies!
It's not easy for me to believe in a third nacelle or other trivialities to the Enterprise-D at all. I think they're utterly horrid and shameful. In comparison, I have no problems with the subtle hull change in the Enterprise-E because of how subtle they are.
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Old March 18 2013, 08:12 PM   #26
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Re: The AGT Dreadnought Enterprise

Look at the TMP Constitution-class.
On every account, she's much bulkier than her TOS forebear - bigger, thicker saucer, thicker neck, larger secondary hull, broader pylons. Plus way more greeblies, angles and detailing. Hardly sleeker... (And never mind that she basically appears to be an all-new ship that just camouflages as a refit for bureaucratic purposes!)

No, by thinking about how to refine the design then start the ball rolling with a starship design and engineering team, duh.
And then the team comes and tells you that you can have anything else you want, but you can't have sleeker, unless you build an all-new hull. And that's not refitting, that's newbuilding.

It's not easy for me to believe in a third nacelle or other trivialities to the Enterprise-D at all. I think they're utterly horrid and shameful. In comparison, I have no problems with the subtle hull change in the Enterprise-E because of how subtle they are.
Just to clarify, do you find the E-E changes easy to believe in because you can easily pretend they did not happen?

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Old March 18 2013, 08:29 PM   #27
C.E. Evans
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Re: The AGT Dreadnought Enterprise

Look at the TMP Constitution-class.
On every account, she's much bulkier than her TOS forebear - bigger, thicker saucer, thicker neck, larger secondary hull, broader pylons. Plus way more greeblies, angles and detailing. Hardly sleeker...
I have to strongly disagree with that assessment. While the refit is slightly larger than the original, overall it does appear to sleeker and more "aerodynamic" or streamlined than the original (you can have smaller ships be less streamlined than larger ships).
No, by thinking about how to refine the design then start the ball rolling with a starship design and engineering team, duh.
And then the team comes and tells you that you can have anything else you want, but you can't have sleeker, unless you build an all-new hull. And that's not refitting, that's newbuilding.
I would still call it a refit if it still involves the original ship. You can call it an "upgrade" or "redesign" if makes you feel better, though.

It's not easy for me to believe in a third nacelle or other trivialities to the Enterprise-D at all. I think they're utterly horrid and shameful. In comparison, I have no problems with the subtle hull change in the Enterprise-E because of how subtle they are.
Just to clarify, do you find the E-E changes easy to believe in because you can easily pretend they did not happen?
Quite the opposite. I think after a couple of years in service, Starfleet discovered ways to refine the Sovereign-class design and the ship returned to spacedock where those refinements were incorporated. The Sovereign-class wouldn't be the first starship design which featured subtle variants (the Ambassador-class comes to mind right now)
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Last edited by C.E. Evans; March 18 2013 at 11:47 PM. Reason: forgot the "the" in one sentence
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Old March 18 2013, 09:34 PM   #28
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Re: The AGT Dreadnought Enterprise

I actually think the Ent-E is a pretty cool design. My only problem is it just doesn't look "TNG" enough. It looks more like something that belonged on VOY or something, alongside all those other elongated ships.

I would have far preferred to have seen them come up with something with the same basic shape and design as the D, even if the differences were only subtle.
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Old March 18 2013, 09:56 PM   #29
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: The AGT Dreadnought Enterprise

Dream wrote: View Post
Anyone find it sad how we got WAY more new starship designs in "All Good Things" (USS Pasteur, future Enterprise, new Klingon attack cruisers) compared to "Generations" (All reused ship designs)? It was so disappointing how little effort was put into that stupid movie!
I'm not 100% sure, but I think the original Neg'var model was a kitbashed over-the-counter Vor'cha, and would have looked it on the big screen. The old bird of prey was used because only it at the D7 from The Motion Picture had movie quality details. And the D7 was still painted grey and covered with little golden greebles from it's stint as Qu'nos-1 in STVI.
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Old March 18 2013, 10:11 PM   #30
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Re: The AGT Dreadnought Enterprise

King Daniel wrote: View Post
The old bird of prey was used because only it at the D7 from The Motion Picture had movie quality details.
The main reason it was used was because they wanted to be cheap and reuse all the BOP effect shots from TUC like the BOP going to warp, cloaking, and when it exploded.
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