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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old March 4 2013, 07:12 PM   #16
J.T.B.
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Re: "Ion" sounds technical

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
I thought turbo lasers were a Classic Galactica thing, in the Vipers. Was it said in Star Wars too?
An officer on the Death Star tells Vader the Rebel ships are so small, "they're evading our turbo-lasers." That's when Vader decides they'll have to go out and destroy them ship by ship.

BSG did have the "turbo" button on their control sticks, and they had lasers, but it was Star Wars that rolled them into one.

For those who weren't around: Back in the '70s Energy Crisis and Gas Crunch days, turbocharging was marketed as an almost miraculous way to get high performance out of smaller, more efficient automobile engines, and cars so equipped let you know with can't-miss "TURBO" decals and badges. It wears engines out faster, of course, but people didn't know that yet.
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Old March 4 2013, 11:06 PM   #17
Olive, the Other Reindeer
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Re: "Ion" sounds technical

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
. . . Back in the '70s Energy Crisis and Gas Crunch days, turbocharging was marketed as an almost miraculous way to get high performance out of smaller, more efficient automobile engines, and cars so equipped let you know with can't-miss "TURBO" decals and badges. It wears engines out faster, of course, but people didn't know that yet.
It was also around that time that "turbo" became an advertising buzzword to suggest "fast" or "powerful," and was attached to products that had nothing to do with turbines or turbochargers. I mean, Turbo Shave?
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Old March 5 2013, 03:21 AM   #18
SnowboredShipCapt'n
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Re: "Ion" sounds technical

scotpens wrote: View Post
J.T.B. wrote: View Post
. . . Back in the '70s Energy Crisis and Gas Crunch days, turbocharging was marketed as an almost miraculous way to get high performance out of smaller, more efficient automobile engines, and cars so equipped let you know with can't-miss "TURBO" decals and badges. It wears engines out faster, of course, but people didn't know that yet.
It was also around that time that "turbo" became an advertising buzzword to suggest "fast" or "powerful," and was attached to products that had nothing to do with turbines or turbochargers. I mean, Turbo Shave?
Like "astro-" in the sixties and "laser" in the eighties. My grandparents had a Magnavox hi-fi set called "Astro-Sonic," and Swire Magnetics used to market a line of audiocassettes nonsensically called "Laser."
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Old March 5 2013, 04:07 AM   #19
ZapBrannigan
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Re: "Ion" sounds technical

Another big thing in those days was to add "2000" to a product name because it sounded futuristic. That went away by the '90s if I recall.
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Old March 5 2013, 02:48 PM   #20
Redfern
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Re: "Ion" sounds technical

At least "Best Brains" had the foresight to title its signature comedy series "Mystery Science Theater 3000".

Sincerely,

Bill
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Old March 5 2013, 02:58 PM   #21
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Re: "Ion" sounds technical

Kubrick and Clarke were way ahead of the curve with HAL 9000.
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Old March 6 2013, 03:44 AM   #22
ToddPence
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Re: "Ion" sounds technical

I have a theory that every television series that ran for at least two three or years has it's own "Spock's Brain." I'm currently working my way through the third season of Starsky and Hutch on DVD, and just saw the episode "Satan's Witches". This gets my vote as S&H's version of "Spock's Brain".
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Old March 6 2013, 03:14 PM   #23
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Re: "Ion" sounds technical

The point is, an ion engine is not some aspect of the universe that may be wrongly interpreted by contemporary physics. It is an established bit of engineering.
But that's total bullshit. Absolute nonsense.

You can't divine a mechanism's deeper nature from its name. What is a "rotary engine"? It's a rotating-piston internal combustion engine also known as the Wankel engine. And it's a classic reciprocal-piston radial engine used in early aircraft, where the main axle is immobile and the entire engine (along with the propeller) rotates for cooling. And it would be a valid way to describe a turbine, or an electric motor. Or any motion technology that falls outside the parameters of "linear engine".

Saying that "ion power" must refer exclusively to the probably completely useless charged-particles-as-propellant toys being tinkered with today is like saying that "rotor" must refer to the thing atop a helicopter and therefore can never credibly be part of an automobile. Not even when it's a key component of the most modern automobiles today, the ones with electric engines where "rotor" is a central component. And was a key component in the most antiquated automobiles of yesteryear, the ones with electric engines...

That said, I sort of like Dave Stern's use of the buzzword in the novel Daedalus, where "ion cascades" are a speculative power generation or transformation technology - combined with the mention of "polaric ions" in Voyager. It's clearly something even Janeway finds impressive enough, something that could power starships or entire planets but is way too dangerous for those large scale applications and probably best confined to shuttlecraft or pocket lighters. And it's not an acronym or some other dodge - but it's not contrary to physics, either. There are many uses to an ion today, and many more will be found in the future.

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Old March 6 2013, 05:39 PM   #24
Robert Comsol
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Re: "Ion" sounds technical

Metryq wrote: View Post
The point is, an ion engine is not some aspect of the universe that may be wrongly interpreted by contemporary physics. It is an established bit of engineering. Having sci-fi characters punch a hole through an armored steel wall with hand-thrown tennis balls would be equally ridiculous.
I do concur that the widespread notion of an "ion drive" had been the electrical acceleration of ionized particles for propulsion exhaust.
At the time it was and sounded admittedly like a more sophisticated (and cleaner) from of propulsion than the nuclear one, but apparently many people didn't understand that the thrust of such an ion drive (only works in the vacuum of space) is ridiculously inferior to even a chemical rocket (it builds up velocity over a long period of time and simply has a better payload-onboard fuel ratio).

The "official" interpretation for the acronym T.I.E (fighter) is "twin-ion-engined" but already a quick glance at the stern of Lord Vader's (long range) TIE fighter reveals that there are not two but four propulsion engines (nozzles).

Many years ago I talked about the issue with ILM model maker Lorne Peterson in Italy and he told me that they had considered an alternate acronym interpretation: Thermal Ion Energy

Considering that nuclear fusion occurs by the free floating particles of an ionized plasma, I had always taken this as a very strong hint, that we are looking a two fusion reactors powering the TIE fighter which are somehow referred to as "(power) engines" opposite to "(propulsion) engines".

Though I usually abide to the unwritten law that you shouldn't mix terminology of the Star Wars Universe with the one from the Star Trek Universe, I'm afraid, that the "ion power" quote from Scotty in "Spock's Brain" equally refers to some kind of fusion process.

Maybe they used antimatter deuterium and antimatter tritium for antimatter nuclear fusion which still might be somewhat more what Federation technology is capable of in the 23rd Century.

Bob
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Old March 7 2013, 03:26 AM   #25
Metryq
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Re: "Ion" sounds technical

Timo wrote: View Post
But that's total bullshit. Absolute nonsense.
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Old March 16 2013, 06:24 PM   #26
publiusr
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Re: "Ion" sounds technical

Now in John Archibald Wheeler's book Geons, Black Holes, and Quantum Foam: A Life in Physics he talked about the concept "Charge without charge."

This might be a bit different
http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=19407

Now of all the drives seen yet, the cytherian probe in the Nth degree seemed to move without any type of field manipulation at all, at least not detectably. That impresses me as a fictional concept. This all plays into my difficulty in how to rank pure saucer concepts.

The metaluna type saucer in This Island Earth looks more primative than a Fed saucer, which has a busy secondary hull nacelle pairing. But Klaatu's minimalist design seems to argue for simplicity.

Then I look at a Klingon Bird of Prey, I see a more agile version of the Great Eastern.
It has artificial and anti-gravity, retro-thrusters, and warp/impulse drive--oh and wings to boot.

Great Eastern had sails, paddlewheels and propellers.
But the props (now maybe kitesails) took over from that--so maybe a pure simple saucer is more advanced, despite the retro look...

In terms of Spocks brain, his headpiece almost seemed proto-cyberman. Maybe an artist could show some handlebars too--or Nimoy in Alan Rickman's head sculpt in Galaxy Quest for a joke
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Old March 17 2013, 03:02 AM   #27
Elder Knight
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Re: "Ion" sounds technical

There's the one Trek episode that involves an "ion storm."

Once, the TVGuide summary rendered this "an iron storm."

That was an interesting slip. i was trying to imagine a bombardment of heavy particles!
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Old March 17 2013, 06:44 AM   #28
Olive, the Other Reindeer
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Re: "Ion" sounds technical

Elder Knight wrote: View Post
There's the one Trek episode that involves an "ion storm."

Once, the TVGuide summary rendered this "an iron storm."

That was an interesting slip. i was trying to imagine a bombardment of heavy particles!
Or a somewhat lackluster video game.
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