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Old March 17 2013, 12:26 AM   #31
yousirname
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

^I'd imagine people like that aren't too well liked. The whole self-improvement thing.
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Old March 17 2013, 12:30 AM   #32
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

pfft.. I'll have my little community of beachniks and we won't care about the rest of you and your fancy shmancy bettering wank.
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Old March 17 2013, 12:37 AM   #33
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

teacake wrote: View Post
What I want to see is people who just sit on their ass on the beach their whole life, replicating their needs. Where are these people? Because I'd sure as hell be one of them in this glorious future.
They probably all live either on Risa or Wrigley's Pleasure Planet.
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Old March 17 2013, 12:55 AM   #34
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

SchwEnt wrote: View Post
Mysterion wrote: View Post
That everyone on the Enterprise in TOS was an officer. Silly. Just damned silly and impractical.
I can buy GR's thinking on this. TOS was made in the era of the NASA astronaut-hero, the days of John Glenn and others. At that time, all NASA astronauts were college grads and all were officers.

GR wanted his TOS crew to be qualified astronauts, same as NASA, only in a future century. NASA only had officers as their astronauts, GR wanted no less. So okay, everyone on the Enterprise is an astronaut and an officer.
But it simply isn't practical for a crew of 400 to be entirely officers. You ned enlisted crew to be there.
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Old March 17 2013, 01:05 AM   #35
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

teacake wrote: View Post
What I want to see is people who just sit on their ass on the beach their whole life, replicating their needs. Where are these people? Because I'd sure as hell be one of them in this glorious future.
Exactly. Gene Roddenberry apparently thought that human nature could be re-shaped to suit a politico-economic ideology, and vices like laziness could be done away with. He was naive.

This "evolved humanity" concept was analogous to the "New Soviet man" push that worked out so well in Russia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Soviet_man
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Old March 17 2013, 01:25 AM   #36
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

To be fair, there's no indication that Roddenberry "thought that human nature could be re-shaped to suit a politico-economic ideology". It seems to me that he thought that technology would remove the impetus in humans to those impulses - that it would re-shape itself of its own accord.

And I mean - I dunno. People talk about 'human nature' but there used to be slaves fighting to the death in ancient Rome. People used to tie cats to sticks and burn them in public for entertainment only a few hundred years ago (by which time gladiator-slaves weren't seen as acceptable). Sensibilities do change.
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Old March 17 2013, 01:31 AM   #37
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

Still, money is what makes the world go around and always has been. Without money, just what motivates people to go to work, to even get a job to begin with? After all, their free house likely has a replicator that can provide them with unlimited food and clothing.
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Old March 17 2013, 01:36 AM   #38
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

I'm not sure 'jobs' as we think of them even exist. Virtually everyone we see is a Starfleet officer or a scientist. Presumably there are engineers, architects, etc. I guess people become architects because they want to be architects. We see Joseph Sisko runs a restaurant but that seems to be just because he loves to cook.

Now, what if someone wants to be an architect but just isn't any use at it? Maybe they just keep plugging away, or maybe they find something new. I do wish they'd have fleshed it out more but it probably wouldn't have made very entertaining viewing.
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Old March 17 2013, 01:47 AM   #39
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

Joseph Sisko also had employees working for him. Just what makes people want to be a waiter at a restaurant? O clean dishes? It's not to pay for university, save up for a car or any of that stuff. Hell, what do people who don't join Starfleet and have no science interests or aspirations do? Hell, robocops have even been built for law enforcement!
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Last edited by The Wormhole; March 17 2013 at 09:45 PM.
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Old March 17 2013, 01:55 AM   #40
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

I propose holodeck privileges. You want access to the latest holodeck programs not to mention holodeck time? You gotta work. If you are a dumbass you wash dishes. Because you need your special time on the holodeck with Shmun and T'Lana. Roddenberry replaced money with porn credit.
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Old March 17 2013, 01:56 AM   #41
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

Maybe the waiters are trainee chefs? Did we see people cleaning dishes? You'd think there'd be a machine to do that given that even we have dishwashers.
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Old March 17 2013, 01:58 AM   #42
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

I think Sisko's dad says something about washing dishes? And we know they peel their own potatoes, I'm sure you could dump them all into a machine and have them come out peeled.
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Old March 17 2013, 02:02 AM   #43
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

That's kind of silly, then. Unless Sisko makes his trainees do things the old-fashioned way because blah blah blah. That stuff always irritates the piss out of me. As if people today are using washboards and drying their clothes with mangles because 'nothing beats the old-fashioned ways' etc.

Or rather, as if people who did do that today wouldn't be regarded as weirdoes.
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Old March 17 2013, 02:08 AM   #44
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Still, money is what makes the world go around and always has been. Without money, just what motivates people to go to work, to even get a job to begin with? ....
The joy of doing something. It's what makes volunteers do what they do.

I see your point though, if there were a need for many people to do something that few found pleasurable, meaningful, or joyful. How would you motovate people to weld a starship together in Iowa?
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Old March 17 2013, 02:15 AM   #45
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

I can't find any reference to washing the dishes at Joseph's restaurant. i would think they would just toss them in a replicator and get new ones out of them. But they certainly were peeling potatoes, which I suppose some my find enjoyable.

As to the waiters, good suggestion that it's a requirement to learning how to cook. Getting feedback, seeing what pleases people etc..
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