RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,346
Posts: 5,354,141
Members: 24,620
Currently online: 493
Newest member: StarTrekSteve

TrekToday headlines

Sci-Fried To Release New Album
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Star Trek into Darkness Soundtrack
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Horse 1, Shatner 0
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Drexler TV Alert
By: T'Bonz on Jul 26

Retro Review: His Way
By: Michelle on Jul 26

MicroWarriors Releases Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Ships Of The Line Design Contest
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Next Weekend: Shore Leave 36!
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

True Trek History To Be Penned
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 16 2013, 06:02 PM   #271
DalekJim
Fleet Captain
 
DalekJim's Avatar
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: Levar Burton aka Geordi La Forge criticizes Star Trek 2009

Franklin wrote: View Post
Maybe what you're saying is Trek is best left to TV. Have the four or five episodes of phaser battles and hand-wringing villains, then sneak in a more thougtful or deeper-themed episode. Like sneaking vegetables into the pizza sauce. But popular culture, where Trek belongs, is not the place to nourish your mind. You'll end up malnourished. It's a place to treat yourself to some delicious high quality junk food. Go elsewhere for your nourishment.
I appreciate that sci-fi literature is of far more merit than Star Trek, as are shows like Babylon 5 and Neon Genesis Evangelion which take a far more ideas driven approach.

But even if it has to be action/adventure, it doesn't have to be fucking stupid action/adventure. The Trouble With Tribbles and Wrath of Khan are excellent scripts despite being adventure stories instead of science-fiction ones. Best of Both Worlds and Call to Arms are blockbuster action but smartly written. There's no excuse.
DalekJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16 2013, 06:04 PM   #272
Franklin
Rear Admiral
 
Location: In the bleachers
Re: Levar Burton aka Geordi La Forge criticizes Star Trek 2009

DalekJim wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
DalekJim wrote: View Post
Rubbish. You won't be followed around the forum for liking the movie.
I answer posts that interest me personally, whether they be by you or someone else.

And, I hope your not insinuating that I'm following you around?
The more hardcore an Abrams fan is, the more abhorrent their behaviour seems to devolve to. I'd repeat what another poster said about those with Abrams avatars but I'd probably get a bollocking.

It's always the danger of having a cult of personality though really. Read Frank Herbert's Dune for more information.
There also seems to be a cult of personality around The Roddenberry. Not poking at anyone with a stick here. Not making personal accusations. Not making a value judgement. Just making an empirical statement based on forty years of being a Trek fan.
__________________
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain
Franklin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16 2013, 06:04 PM   #273
Lt. Cheka Wey
Commander
 
Re: Levar Burton aka Geordi La Forge criticizes Star Trek 2009

Yes there is, it was the first movie. The second one will be more complex and spend more time exploring ideas.
Lt. Cheka Wey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16 2013, 06:12 PM   #274
Franklin
Rear Admiral
 
Location: In the bleachers
Re: Levar Burton aka Geordi La Forge criticizes Star Trek 2009

DalekJim wrote: View Post
Franklin wrote: View Post
Maybe what you're saying is Trek is best left to TV. Have the four or five episodes of phaser battles and hand-wringing villains, then sneak in a more thougtful or deeper-themed episode. Like sneaking vegetables into the pizza sauce. But popular culture, where Trek belongs, is not the place to nourish your mind. You'll end up malnourished. It's a place to treat yourself to some delicious high quality junk food. Go elsewhere for your nourishment.
I appreciate that sci-fi literature is of far more merit than Star Trek, as are shows like Babylon 5 and Neon Genesis Evangelion which take a far more ideas driven approach.

But even if it has to be action/adventure, it doesn't have to be fucking stupid action/adventure. The Trouble With Tribbles and Wrath of Khan are excellent scripts despite being adventure stories instead of science-fiction ones. Best of Both Worlds and Call to Arms are blockbuster action but smartly written. There's no excuse.
On that I agree whole-heartedly. We just draw our lines in different places and have different expectations going in.
Personally, I don't want my intelligence insulted, either. If I think STID is stupid, I'll certainly say so. But I'm also not expecting my horizons to be expanded when I go to see an action-adventure flick like STID, or even a comedy for that matter. It's where one sets the bar, I guess. That's cool.
__________________
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain
Franklin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16 2013, 06:15 PM   #275
DalekJim
Fleet Captain
 
DalekJim's Avatar
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: Levar Burton aka Geordi La Forge criticizes Star Trek 2009

Franklin wrote: View Post
There also seems to be a cult of personality around The Roddenberry. Not poking at anyone with a stick here. Not making personal accusations. Not making a value judgement. Just making an empirical statement based on forty years of being a Trek fan.
I think the cult of Gene Roddenberry died when TNG S1 sucked donkey dick.

Gene L. Coon, Harlan Ellison, Michael Piller and Ira Steven Behr are the writers you're more likely to see me jizz about. Though I'm sure some nice chap will be along shortly to say Orci and Kurtzman are better because Transformers 2 and Star Trek 2009 made more money.
DalekJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16 2013, 06:19 PM   #276
The Mirrorball Man
Vice Admiral
 
The Mirrorball Man's Avatar
 
Location: Switzerland
View The Mirrorball Man's Twitter Profile
Re: Levar Burton aka Geordi La Forge criticizes Star Trek 2009

DalekJim wrote: View Post
Gene L. Coon, Harlan Ellison, Michael Piller and Ira Steven Behr are the writers you're more likely to see me jizz about. Though I'm sure some nice chap will be along shortly to say Orci and Kurtzman are better because Transformers 2 and Star Trek 2009 made more money.
You're sure of that? When has that ever happened? Ironically, the only person around here who has articulated that kind of thought is you.
__________________
Check out my deviantArt gallery!
The Mirrorball Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16 2013, 06:20 PM   #277
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: In the 23rd Century...
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Levar Burton aka Geordi La Forge criticizes Star Trek 2009

Franklin wrote: View Post
On that I agree whole-heartedly. We just draw our lines in different places and have different expectations going in.
Personally, I don't want my intelligence insulted, either. If I think STID is stupid, I'll certainly say so. But I'm also not expecting my horizons to be expanded when I go to see an action-adventure flick like STID, or even a comedy for that matter. It's where one sets the bar, I guess. That's cool.
I think if we're all honest here, we've all seen a shitload of stupid Star Trek over the years. Is Abrams the smartest Trek I've ever seen? No. Is it the dumbest Trek I've ever seen? Not by a long shot.
__________________
"I had no idea you were so... formidable. " - Anan 7 to James T. Kirk, A Taste of Armageddon
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16 2013, 06:23 PM   #278
DalekJim
Fleet Captain
 
DalekJim's Avatar
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: Levar Burton aka Geordi La Forge criticizes Star Trek 2009

Every Star Trek show has those few episodes where you wonder what the fuck everybody was thinking. Even Deep Space 9 had shit like Profit and Lace, in one of the show's best seasons no less.

The difference is we didn't have Profit and Lace as the flagship installment of the franchise in absence of everything else.
DalekJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16 2013, 06:29 PM   #279
Opus
Commodore
 
Opus's Avatar
 
Location: Bloom County
Re: Levar Burton aka Geordi La Forge criticizes Star Trek 2009

DalekJim wrote: View Post
Rubbish. You won't be followed around the forum and crudely heckled for liking the movie. It certainly seems to appeal to a certain type of fan sadly.
I have no love for NEM, INS, ENT or VOY. Yet, I have successfully been able to avoid being chased around this message board or heckled by those who've enjoyed these incarnations of Trek.

From the reading of your posts, it might have more to do about the tone of your posts about those who enjoyed the last Trek movie and the frequency of posting on things you so dislike all the time that causes this. You get what you give.

Just saying...
__________________
Now that I've seen it, and have also had time to mellow, to really think about it, I now find it absolutely, unbearably repulsive in every way except for some of the acting. - about The Wrath of Khan. Interstat, Issue 62: 1982
Opus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16 2013, 06:30 PM   #280
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: House of Kang, now with ridges
Re: Levar Burton aka Geordi La Forge criticizes Star Trek 2009

DalekJim wrote: View Post
You seriously don't see how The Cage or The Motion Picture resemble literary science-fiction more than Abrams Trek?
.
I've read quite a bit of SF and no I don't.

Rubbish. You won't be followed around the forum and crudely heckled for liking the movie. It certainly seems to appeal to a certain type of fan sadly.
You're in a forum about Star Trek, specifically one about the newer films. People are going to comment on what you say about them. No one is following you, they are just posting in the same threads as you.
__________________
The boring one, the one with Khan, the one where Spock returns, the one with whales, the dumb one, the last one, the one with Kirk, the one with the Borg, the stupid one, the bad one, the new one, the other one with Khan.
Nerys Myk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16 2013, 06:33 PM   #281
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: In the 23rd Century...
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Levar Burton aka Geordi La Forge criticizes Star Trek 2009

DalekJim wrote: View Post
Every Star Trek show has those few episodes where you wonder what the fuck everybody was thinking. Even Deep Space 9 had shit like Profit and Lace, in one of the show's best seasons no less.

The difference is we didn't have Profit and Lace as the flagship installment of the franchise in absence of everything else.
I'm not talking about ill-conceived episodes, I'm talking about episodes that do head scratching things for no other reason than to move the plot along (much like the 2009 film did).

One of my absolute personal favorite TOS episodes is The Naked Time. But in order for the Enterprise to be compromised we have to believe three absolutely insane things: 1) That during a critical orbit that the Engineering deck only has two officers on duty, 2) That Scott would be gullible enough to abandon engineering on the word of another officer with the only other engineer on duty, 3) That the engineering section has only one door and no way to override the locks.

It's an incredibly stupid set of events that have to happen to make the episode go, but the episode writing outside of that coupled with the acting make it one hell of an entertaining episode.

And you can count mountain sized plot-holes and other stupidities on about eighty percent of Trek episodes as a whole.
__________________
"I had no idea you were so... formidable. " - Anan 7 to James T. Kirk, A Taste of Armageddon
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16 2013, 06:39 PM   #282
DalekJim
Fleet Captain
 
DalekJim's Avatar
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: Levar Burton aka Geordi La Forge criticizes Star Trek 2009

BillJ wrote: View Post
One of my absolute personal favorite TOS episodes is The Naked Time. But in order for the Enterprise to be compromised we have to believe three absolutely insane things
My favourite TOS episode is This Side of Paradise and it's hardly realistic. Still, I am more forgiving if an episode is more conceptual or ambitious than if it coasts along a generic formula. Most of my favourite Trek episodes (Such as In The Pale Moonlight, The Inner Light, The Visitor and City on the Edge of Forever) push the format in some way. I don't feel Abrams is doing this so it feels like the franchise is in a rut and to get out of it, I feel it must return to television.

The novel range seems to be doing quite well though.
DalekJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16 2013, 06:44 PM   #283
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: In the 23rd Century...
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Levar Burton aka Geordi La Forge criticizes Star Trek 2009

DalekJim wrote: View Post
I don't feel Abrams is doing this so it feels like the franchise is in a rut and to get out of it, I feel it must return to television.
I think it's fairer to say Abrams isn't doing it yet. We honestly don't know what the future holds in regards to Star Trek Into Darkness (I haven't seen it yet and refuse to damn it with praise or ridicule until I have) and the inevitable Star Trek 2016.

But even if he does go down the more philosophical route, it will still be more in the background as his job is to sell movie tickets first and foremost.
__________________
"I had no idea you were so... formidable. " - Anan 7 to James T. Kirk, A Taste of Armageddon
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16 2013, 06:48 PM   #284
Franklin
Rear Admiral
 
Location: In the bleachers
Re: Levar Burton aka Geordi La Forge criticizes Star Trek 2009

BillJ wrote: View Post
DalekJim wrote: View Post
Every Star Trek show has those few episodes where you wonder what the fuck everybody was thinking. Even Deep Space 9 had shit like Profit and Lace, in one of the show's best seasons no less.

The difference is we didn't have Profit and Lace as the flagship installment of the franchise in absence of everything else.
I'm not talking about ill-conceived episodes, I'm talking about episodes that do head scratching things for no other reason than to move the plot along (much like the 2009 film did).

One of my absolute personal favorite TOS episodes is The Naked Time. But in order for the Enterprise to be compromised we have to believe three absolutely insane things: 1) That during a critical orbit that the Engineering deck only has two officers on duty, 2) That Scott would be gullible enough to abandon engineering on the word of another officer with the only other engineer on duty, 3) That the engineering section has only one door and no way to override the locks.

It's an incredibly stupid set of events that have to happen to make the episode go, but the episode writing outside of that coupled with the acting make it one hell of an entertaining episode.

And you can count mountain sized plot-holes and other stupidities on about eighty percent of Trek episodes as a whole.
Which brings up another point. Not only have we all probably watched a shitload of good and bad Trek, as you pointed out, BillJ, but we've watched a lot more Trek than anyone probably intended to be watched. The TV episodes, even movies, were not written to be pieces that would be watched over and over and picked apart ten, twenty, or even fifty years later. (Fifty years. Yikes!) Not even Shakespeare was writing thinking his works would be scrutinized over four hundred years after they were written. He was entertaining people in the moment.

Very few popular culture TV shows and movies stand the test of time or heavy and repeated scrutiny. Considering they're all shot with finite budgets, deadlines to meet, egos to massage, profitability in mind, and other things that can affect "artistic quality," it's a wonder they can stand up to even one viewing.
__________________
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain
Franklin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16 2013, 06:51 PM   #285
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: In the 23rd Century...
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Levar Burton aka Geordi La Forge criticizes Star Trek 2009

Hell, I watched Obsession today and they left an impulse vent open because they didn't think it was important when battling a fog creature.
__________________
"I had no idea you were so... formidable. " - Anan 7 to James T. Kirk, A Taste of Armageddon
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:23 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.