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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old March 15 2013, 04:17 PM   #16
Christopher
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Re: New to trek literature please help - where to begin

^Even so, you keep forgetting to acknowledge Vonda McIntyre as the actual creator of the character! There seems to be this common misconception (one that Orci may be just as guilty of) that Carey was the creator of the character because she was the one who wrote two novels centered around him, but the FACT is that McIntyre introduced the character in E:TFA. She also named Winona Kirk in that same book and gave Hikaru Sulu his first name in The Entropy Effect, so she deserves a lot of credit that she is inexplicably denied.
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Old March 15 2013, 06:32 PM   #17
F. King Daniel
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Re: New to trek literature please help - where to begin

Christopher wrote: View Post
^Even so, you keep forgetting to acknowledge Vonda McIntyre as the actual creator of the character! There seems to be this common misconception (one that Orci may be just as guilty of) that Carey was the creator of the character because she was the one who wrote two novels centered around him, but the FACT is that McIntyre introduced the character in E:TFA. She also named Winona Kirk in that same book and gave Hikaru Sulu his first name in The Entropy Effect, so she deserves a lot of credit that she is inexplicably denied.
While yes, Vonda McIntyre did introduce the character and deserves credit for it, how much did she establish about George Kirk? It's been quite a while since I read E:TFA, but I only recall him being mentioned in passing as a deceased Starfleet officer. Were the versions of the character in E:TFA and FF supposed to be the same, or did Carey take the name and create her own version, like Shatner and the Reeves-Stevens did with George Joseph Kirk in Collision Course?
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Old March 15 2013, 06:43 PM   #18
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Re: New to trek literature please help - where to begin

^That's really splitting hairs. McIntyre introduced the characters and Carey drew on that precedent -- just as several subsequent novelists have followed what McIntyre introduced in E:TFA about the name of McCoy's wife (Jocelyn) and the history of their divorce, and just as every subsequent tie-in has built on what McIntyre established about Saavik's backstory in her TWOK novelization. McIntyre established a great deal of what's generally accepted to be true about Trek characters, and some of it has become canonical. I don't see why you're so resistant to acknowledging that influence.
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Old March 16 2013, 12:54 AM   #19
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Re: New to trek literature please help - where to begin

JD wrote: View Post
^I don't think any of those are in print anymore though, so if you want them you'd probably have to find them used online or at a used book store.

I believe a number of those older books have been released as ebooks, not to mention that used bookstores tend to have quite a few copies of the books from the pre-1990's era than books from 1990 onwards.
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Old March 16 2013, 05:14 PM   #20
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Re: New to trek literature please help - where to begin

Christopher wrote: View Post
^That's really splitting hairs. McIntyre introduced the characters and Carey drew on that precedent -- just as several subsequent novelists have followed what McIntyre introduced in E:TFA about the name of McCoy's wife (Jocelyn) and the history of their divorce, and just as every subsequent tie-in has built on what McIntyre established about Saavik's backstory in her TWOK novelization. McIntyre established a great deal of what's generally accepted to be true about Trek characters, and some of it has become canonical. I don't see why you're so resistant to acknowledging that influence.
I'm not resistant at all. No question Vonda McIntyre originated a lot of Trek lore, including the idea that George Kirk was a Starfleet officer. But the idea of him being first officer of a starship began with Carey - and the earliest versions of the Star Trek story supposedly began with Robert April and George Kirk on the Enterprise - an idea right out of Final Frontier.
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Old March 16 2013, 05:57 PM   #21
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Re: New to trek literature please help - where to begin

King Daniel wrote: View Post
I'm not resistant at all. No question Vonda McIntyre originated a lot of Trek lore, including the idea that George Kirk was a Starfleet officer.
And that he was named George Kirk in the first place. Don't forget that she deserves credit for naming both George and Winona.

But the idea of him being first officer of a starship began with Carey - and the earliest versions of the Star Trek story supposedly began with Robert April and George Kirk on the Enterprise - an idea right out of Final Frontier.
Which built on what McIntyre had previously established. What I object to is that you only mention Carey and thus give the misleading impression that she created the characters. It's not about one versus the other, it's about only mentioning one when you should mention both.
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Old March 16 2013, 10:01 PM   #22
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Re: New to trek literature please help - where to begin

I read a couple of old Star Trek novel a long time ago but when I started again, after a long pause, l started from the post Nemesis novels and the voyager relaunch. I didn't try the DS9 relaunch but I will. I think all the relaunch are good point to start. They allow us to continue the adventure of our favorite TV show or our favorite characters. And I Iike the continuity they maintain.
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Old March 16 2013, 10:41 PM   #23
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Re: New to trek literature please help - where to begin

Christopher wrote: View Post
King Daniel wrote: View Post
I'm not resistant at all. No question Vonda McIntyre originated a lot of Trek lore, including the idea that George Kirk was a Starfleet officer.
And that he was named George Kirk in the first place. Don't forget that she deserves credit for naming both George and Winona.

But the idea of him being first officer of a starship began with Carey - and the earliest versions of the Star Trek story supposedly began with Robert April and George Kirk on the Enterprise - an idea right out of Final Frontier.
Which built on what McIntyre had previously established. What I object to is that you only mention Carey and thus give the misleading impression that she created the characters. It's not about one versus the other, it's about only mentioning one when you should mention both.
Fair enough.
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Old March 17 2013, 01:16 AM   #24
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Re: New to trek literature please help - where to begin

tomswift2002 wrote: View Post
JD wrote: View Post
^I don't think any of those are in print anymore though, so if you want them you'd probably have to find them used online or at a used book store.

I believe a number of those older books have been released as ebooks, not to mention that used bookstores tend to have quite a few copies of the books from the pre-1990's era than books from 1990 onwards.
The older Pocket books is, but as far as I know the Ballantine stuff hasn't been in print for several decades, and never in e-form.
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Old March 17 2013, 01:03 PM   #25
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Re: New to trek literature please help - where to begin

JD wrote: View Post
tomswift2002 wrote: View Post
JD wrote: View Post
^I don't think any of those are in print anymore though, so if you want them you'd probably have to find them used online or at a used book store.

I believe a number of those older books have been released as ebooks, not to mention that used bookstores tend to have quite a few copies of the books from the pre-1990's era than books from 1990 onwards.
The older Pocket books is, but as far as I know the Ballantine stuff hasn't been in print for several decades, and never in e-form.

http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Logs...=Star+Trek+log

The Ballantine Logs seem to have been back in print as recently as September 2006. The Bantam books were last released in the late 90's.
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Old March 17 2013, 08:22 PM   #26
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Re: New to trek literature please help - where to begin

Oh yeah, I do remember hearing about the Logs going back into print.
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Old March 17 2013, 09:05 PM   #27
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Re: New to trek literature please help - where to begin

Log wise I'd especially recommend 7 & 8. ADF did a brilliant job with his expansion of "The Eye of the Beholder". The new material is one of my favourite trek stories.
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Old March 18 2013, 05:41 PM   #28
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Re: New to trek literature please help - where to begin

zarkon wrote: View Post
Log wise I'd especially recommend 7 & 8. ADF did a brilliant job with his expansion of "The Eye of the Beholder". The new material is one of my favourite trek stories.
I'd also recommend Log 10, which adapts "The Slaver Weapon" and adds quite a bit of new material to create a full novel-length story. The events of the TAS episode probably only comprise a quarter or so of the novel. Most of the weaknesses of the original episode are still present in the book, but the new material more than makes up for it. It was one of the first two Treklit books I ever owned (the other being Mudd's Angels, both given to me in 1978), and it's still one of my personal favorites.
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Old March 18 2013, 06:28 PM   #29
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Re: New to trek literature please help - where to begin

^What do you perceive as weaknesses in "The Slaver Weapon"?
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Old March 18 2013, 07:58 PM   #30
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Re: New to trek literature please help - where to begin

Well, perhaps "weaknesses" isn't the best word to use, but what I was referring to were mainly the depictions of the Kzinti and the inconsistent "fit" of them into the larger ST universe - the line in the episode about the Kzinti having fought four wars with humanity and having lost them all, their lack of appearances in other ST canon, and such. I know, of course, that the Kzinti were a carryover from the "Known Space" universe, and they don't really neatly fit into the larger ST canon. It seems to me that their purpose in the story could have been served equally well by an Orion pirate crew, or something similar. I know the issue of the Kzinti and their fit into ST in general has been extensively discussed elsewhere, and there are varied opinions on the subject, but that's what I feel about it. Again, perhaps I could have used a different word to describe it but that's what I was referring to.

The novelization does do a good job of explaining what Spock, Sulu, and Uhura were doing in a shuttlecraft with a Slaver stasis box on board in the first place, and where the Enterprise was during all this. I've also always enjoyed the events taking place at the Gruyakin archaeological dig site, as well as the subplot involving Lieutenant M'Ress and other Caitian crew members. I also liked Lieutenant Vedama's "guest" role as the temporary science officer while Spock was off the ship.
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