RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,584
Posts: 5,515,236
Members: 25,156
Currently online: 491
Newest member: jerrlaro

TrekToday headlines

Two New Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Dec 26

Captain Kirk’s Boldest Missions
By: T'Bonz on Dec 25

Trek Paper Clips
By: T'Bonz on Dec 24

Sargent Passes
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

QMx Trek Insignia Badges
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

And The New Director Of Star Trek 3 Is…
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

TV Alert: Pine On Tonight Show
By: T'Bonz on Dec 22

Retro Review: The Emperor’s New Cloak
By: Michelle on Dec 20

Star Trek Opera
By: T'Bonz on Dec 19

New Abrams Project
By: T'Bonz on Dec 18


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science and Technology

Science and Technology "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." - Carl Sagan.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 16 2013, 08:52 AM   #16
Edit_XYZ
Fleet Captain
 
Edit_XYZ's Avatar
 
Location: At star's end.
Re: Physicists say they have found a Higgs boson

Asbo Zaprudder wrote: View Post
Lowering the rest mass increases atomic size. The radius of an atom is inversely proportional to the electron rest mass m, so the radius of atoms (R) would tend to infinity as m -> 0. Intermolecular (London) forces are roughly proportional to the ionization energy I over R^6, and as I is inversely proportional to R, this force would also quickly go to zero as 1/R^7.
Except you won't have 0 mass.
A soon as you lower your mass to 0, you'll be flying at lightspeed, gaining relativistic mass.

'The radius of an atom is inversely proportional to the electron rest mass m, so the radius of atoms (R) would tend to infinity as m -> 0' - due to the uncertainty principle, not due to mass attraction.
As to your wavefunction, the uncertainty principle allows, due to your relativistic mass, for it to be 'squished up' in a region of space not much larger than the one you now occupy (photons don't occupy infinite space for the same reason).
__________________
"Let truth and falsehood grapple ... Truth is strong" - John Milton
Edit_XYZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16 2013, 09:05 AM   #17
Asbo Zaprudder
Rear Admiral
 
Asbo Zaprudder's Avatar
 
Location: On the beach
Re: Physicists say they have found a Higgs boson

The part about mass attraction is a straw-man argument that you have introduced. The rest of your argument is a mish-mash of concepts from relativistic and quantum physics.
Asbo Zaprudder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16 2013, 09:11 AM   #18
Cookies and Cake
Admiral
 
Location: North America
Re: Physicists say they have found a Higgs boson

Asbo Zaprudder wrote: View Post
Lowering the rest mass increases atomic size. The radius of an atom is inversely proportional to the electron rest mass m, so the radius of atoms (R) would tend to infinity as m -> 0. Intermolecular (London) forces are roughly proportional to the ionization energy I over R^6, and as I is inversely proportional to R, this force would also quickly go to zero as 1/R^7.
Asbo Zaprudder wrote: View Post
Furthermore, as ionization potential is proportional to electron rest mass (which is where I got the 1/R from in my previous post), all the atoms in your body would soon be ionized by lower energy photons until even infra-red radiation from your own body or your surroundings turns you into a rapidly dispersing ionic plasma.
That's a neat discussion here.

I'll chime in that, while there's no reason to doubt any of that, the idea that the Bohr radius is inversely proportional to electron mass has experimental support from the study of muonic hydrogen.
__________________
CorporalCaptain
Cookies and Cake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16 2013, 09:13 AM   #19
Edit_XYZ
Fleet Captain
 
Edit_XYZ's Avatar
 
Location: At star's end.
Re: Physicists say they have found a Higgs boson

Asbo Zaprudder wrote: View Post
The part about mass attraction is a straw-man argument that you have introduced. The rest of your argument is a mish-mash of concepts from relativistic and quantum physics.
If you knew that the relation between electron mass and atomic radius is due to the uncertainty principle, you sure didn't show it in your previous posts, Astro.

And the rest of my argument is correct:
Δx
·Δpħ/2
Δx=atomic radius r
Δp=Δv·m
And the electron's mass is tiny to begin with.

r
/2)/(Δv·m)
In words - the electron's mass can be as small as you wish (and rest or relativistic - it doesn't matter); if it's not 0, the wavefunction of the atom will be squished in a volume of space not much larger than the one it usually occupies.
__________________
"Let truth and falsehood grapple ... Truth is strong" - John Milton
Edit_XYZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:17 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.